D&D 5E A truly horrifying Age of Worms

[Matrix Sorcica]

Why not try it out first, and adjust as you go (i.e. as the campaign progresses, the undead gets turn resistance, it takes greater restoration etc.). Besides, AoW can't become more horrifying than it was for rogues in 3.5 already.

 

[TheSword]

Having played AoW in 3.5, clerics or paladins with the right prestige class could definitely make things easier for the party. Plus, cheap wands and scrolls... But the campaign was still a meat-grinder.

Characters seem more durable in 5E, but with fewer spell slots and magic items, I don't think clerics or paladins would be any more unbalanced than in the original.

I DM’d the first time round with a different group about 10 years ago in Pathfinder and the cleric and Paladin wiped the floor. It just wasn’t very scary. I wished I’d put the restriction in first time round.

The difference with 5e is the Paladin curing disease at level 1, lesser restoration at level 3, and the nature of spell memorization being you can have the spell without expending a slot. Not to mention turning undead being very effective because of the reduced saving throws of enemies (though this can be helped with turn resistance).

Regarding other methods of making the worms and undead scarier I’m not sure how requiring multiple castings makes things better in a campaign where the worms are relatively common. The cleric/Paladin will just get frustrated having to use spells more than once.

No changes means paladins and clerics overshadow other characters. Making the worms harder to turn penalizes the clerics and paladins and potentially another player if the Ps & Cs don’t successfully remove a worm.

Better to go without and then all players are in an equal boat.

 

[jgsugden]

Age of Worms is a crazily undead heavy campaign, that goes more so as the game continues. I’m not so much worried about the Cleric/Paladin/Druid not getting to shine but rather being dominant above others.

I understood this when I wrote my comments. You're not getting my point. Limiting the PCs is a giant "%$#@ you" to the players. Enhancing the requirements to deal with them, or upping the challenge to account for their strengths (a bit) let's the players continue to enjoy the game without necessarily feeling like you're punishing them. You have to execute it well, but it is a better option than diminishing their magic.

 

[TheSword]

Wouldn't the usual opponents being undead already cancel out with the Cleric ending up to spend a lot of his resources on dealing with the worms?
The one thing I'd adjust is turn Undead. Honestly just take it away from Clerics or make it not work on Undead created by worms. It's one of the subfeatures of a subfeatures that does nothing 95% of the time and is pretty broken when it matters. Channel Divinity is pretty good without it for most Clerics, it's not going to hurt them any feelings.

Not to mention that the tired old trope of Paldin/Cleric vs evil is thematic if nothing else. Straight up making the classes less viable or discouraging them is a bit iffy when it makes perfect sense for them to be there.

Lesser Restoration is not exactly uncommon:
Classes: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger
Outside of Clerics and Druides, who'd still like to do other stuff with their Spellslots, a second level choice is no joke for a Bard and a rather big expenditure for a half caster.

If you want it to be harder to get rid off don't make it a mundane disease.
Switching the worms to a Curse (Classes: Cleric, Paladin, Warlock, Wizard) will compete with Spirit Guardians/Fireball/Haste and really hurts. Greater Restoration is a massive step up and consumes 100GP worth of diamonds. Your players will scramble for consumables to save their slots for other stuff, even if you let Lesser Restoration work.
It's also possible to scale it as already suggested. The worms coming from a Zombie bite will be weak enough to handle with Lesser Restoration. A stronger Undead like a Wight infecting someone will require Remove Curse first and then Lesser Restoration.

I agree about Turn Undead, being able to channel twice per short rest makes undead much weaker. Having the big bad cower in the corner for a minute is not a look.

While I agree that there are other classes that have lesser restoration, only the cleric Paladin and Druid can do it easily from level 3 without really sacrificing it. As you say a bard is sacrificing a very limited number of spell choices, and rangers don’t get 2nd level spells until 5th level and have a reduced number of slots. They also don’t have all the other anti-undead powers - smite, turning etc.

It makes too much sense for clerics and paladins to be there. A bit like Clerics and Paladins in Curse of Strahd. It’s easier with them of course but scarier without those easy go too.

 

[Oofta]

Like others have said, change the mod not the classes.

• The undead have turn resistance, legendary resistance or are just straight up immune. Heck, have turn undead be a power up - it enrages them and give them advantage on their next attack.
• Throw more undead.
• Require something other than cure wounds to heal the affected such as greater restoration.
• Limit resting so that the PCs have to better balance resources.

Nerfing class abilities completely should be last resort.

 

[TheSword]

I understood this when I wrote my comments. You're not getting my point. Limiting the PCs is a giant "%$#@ you" to the players. Enhancing the requirements to deal with them, or upping the challenge to account for their strengths (a bit) let's the players continue to enjoy the game without necessarily feeling like you're punishing them. You have to execute it well, but it is a better option than diminishing their magic.

I get what you’re saying. But I’m saying don’t have full divine casters or paladins. If those classes aren’t in the party (not the game just the party) then the players aren’t being nerfed!

I am absolutely not saying nerf any players abilities!

 

[NotAYakk]

Is it possible to rotate things?

Make the worms aberrant, and the resulting animated corpses actually puppet-golems, glowing with energy from the far realm.

The cults to evil deities are actually being manipulated by older powers.

This undead-that-is-not-undead might add some horror to the game. And it lets you manipulate the monster stats to add madness and mutation effects to it, instead of necrotic energy and the like.

Mixing in some "traditional" undead would also work. Make sure that the "worm puppets" are visually distinct from normal undead. And swap out some BBEGs.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I wouldn't make divine spells cost a higher slot. That's a big nerf that doesn't really address the entirety of the issue. Paladin cure disease would be unaffected. Turn undead would be unaffected. Neither of these resources use spell slots. At the same time, you're nerfing effects that won't unbalance the campaign (like the Zone of Truth spell, which is no better in this campaign than any other).

I agree with those who've suggested simply modifying the effects to your tastes and leaving the classes unmodified.

For example, in a zombie campaign I ran, I modified the undead so that effects like Turn Undead caused them to enrage if they saved successful. This changed it into a high risk / high reward ability that wasn't the go-to you'd expect in a zombie campaign.

You could modify the worm disease so that it can be cured by lesser restoration but leaves an unpleasant after-effect (maybe a curse). Only greater restoration can remove it without causing the after-effect.

 

[Stormonu]

I would agree with not changing the PC's abilities or disallowing classes, but you can change some of the undead abilities and tactics if you want to change the power curve.

• Send in undead in waves. If the PCs aren't judicious about turning, they may waste using the ability too soon (or too late) instead of when most needed.
• Remember turning is broken as soon as the PC damages the undead. While allowing them to possibly make a powerful alpha strike, if the undead can weather initial attacks, they're dangerous again.
• Turning lasts only a minute. Afterward, the undead can return to pester the PCs (especially if they are making themselves easy to find with light & noise). Really dangerous if the PCs are still engaged with other enemies when the undead return (or they wait to ambush PCs)
• Judicious use of turn resistance. The "worms" may give the undead a +2 (+1d4) bonus to turning - sort of like a bless/blight effect. Legendary undead could automatically succeed it with use of a legendary ability. You could designate "Leader" undead in groups that may have aura abilities that buff nearby undead saves or allow them a second save
• The "worms" may require stronger magic to be used to remove effects or heal injuries caused by the undead. You could require PCs to research these effects (possibly with GP costs attached), adding either exotic components ("tail of worm"), higher level spells or saves against worm-induced effects (see Tomb of Annililitation's treatment of the "Death Curse" for ideas).

 

[billd91]

Like others have said, change the mod not the classes.

• The undead have turn resistance, legendary resistance or are just straight up immune. Heck, have turn undead be a power up - it enrages them and give them advantage on their next attack.

I definitely like turn resistance (like with the lich) for upper-tier undead monstrosities. But legendary resistance like with the lich or vampire might be enough to fit the higher bill rather than immunity. If the turning fails even once, chances are they aren't going to try again against that particular undead critter.