Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder 1.5 rumblings: Corefinder

[Lwaxy]

I see no reason,really. Sticking with PF original is easy enough, and I convert 5e or PF2 campaigns on the fly,as always.

5e to me is for one shots.

 

[Puggins]

There's a case to be made that there's not enough pay-off for the complexity. For many people it takes a spreadsheet or super-expensive third party product to accurately keep track of all the modifiers flying around in PF1 (see HeroLab reference above). That Champions-Level amount of detail was almost a revelation back in 2000 but mainstream RPG thought is way, way past that now. A system that can streamline gameplay and still include robust character generation options would definitely have a niche. PF2 doesn't quite hit that sweet spot (it's close, IMO!)

I really don't see the market for this, but hey, I'm wrong lots.

 

[Jharet]

You're welcome. I was the first one to suggest this to Jason Nelson the day after PF2 was announced. I suggested making Mythic Adventures part of core, so we'll see what happens.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Lots of people don't want to have to choose between 5E and PF2.

Spoiler: aside

The former game does many things exactly right, but drops the ball on magic item economy and monster construction, and doesn't offer enough charbuild crunch. The latter definitely offers excellent monsters, but comes too close to 4E in areas of presentation and choice (it mostly offers an illusion of diversity rather than allowing your choices to truly matter).

What I want is 5E, but with deeper chargen, and Paizo levels of quality as regards its magic item pricing and monsters. Let's call it "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons".

Paizo adventures tend to be better than 5e as well.

 

[ZeshinX]

Paizo adventures tend to be better than 5e as well.

I've certainly found them to be. I generally don't use adventure products, but every once in a while I'll check one out. I picked up the Jade Regent adventure path for PF1e (in it's entirety, I believe they were a few paths beyond it when I decided to buy it) and holy crap. It was excellent. I didn't buy anymore since I still ultimately preferred creating my own (but did leaf through some others), but it's design, presentation, included crunch, fluff, world lore...it was quite fantastic.

Eventually became fed up and exhausted with PF and the 3.x ruleset in general (enjoyed it very much for a long time, but the math porn and build-centric mentality of it became too much for me) and switched to 5e. Very much enjoy 5e and creating my own adventures for it for my group...but I eventually acquired Dungeon of the Mad Mage (gifted to me for Christmas)...and yeesh....boring as hell in comparison to a Paizo adventure (at least the one I was familiar with). I had also leafed through other 5e adventures (Rage of Demons, Curse of Strahd, etc)...and ugh...the quality of world building and setting the stage is pathetic when compared to Paizo's adventures. WotC adventures are wildly hit or miss (I find almost entirely miss) while Paizo's are (the one I'm very familiar with and others I leafed through) exceptional.

 

[dave2008]

I've certainly found them to be. I generally don't use adventure products, but every once in a while I'll check one out. I picked up the Jade Regent adventure path for PF1e (in it's entirety, I believe they were a few paths beyond it when I decided to buy it) and holy crap. It was excellent. I didn't buy anymore since I still ultimately preferred creating my own (but did leaf through some others), but it's design, presentation, included crunch, fluff, world lore...it was quite fantastic.

Eventually became fed up and exhausted with PF and the 3.x ruleset in general (enjoyed it very much for a long time, but the math porn and build-centric mentality of it became too much for me) and switched to 5e. Very much enjoy 5e and creating my own adventures for it for my group...but I eventually acquired Dungeon of the Mad Mage (gifted to me for Christmas)...and yeesh....boring as hell in comparison to a Paizo adventure (at least the one I was familiar with). I had also leafed through other 5e adventures (Rage of Demons, Curse of Strahd, etc)...and ugh...the quality of world building and setting the stage is pathetic when compared to Paizo's adventures. WotC adventures are wildly hit or miss (I find almost entirely miss) while Paizo's are (the one I'm very familiar with and others I leafed through) exceptional.

I don't generally use published adventures (actually I don't at all), but your comment made me want to check out the Jade Regent, so I picked it up. So, I need some help because I am not seeing what is fantastic about it. To be clear, I have only skimmed it so far, but it seems to be similar to most published adventures I have come across and nothing is inspiring me to run it at this point (or even steal any ideas from it). What do you think makes this one stand out? Is there anything you can point to specifically? As a reminder I have only skimmed the first adventure at this point.

 

[ZeshinX]

I don't generally use published adventures (actually I don't at all), but your comment made me want to check out the Jade Regent, so I picked it up. So, I need some help because I am not seeing what is fantastic about it. To be clear, I have only skimmed it so far, but it seems to be similar to most published adventures I have come across and nothing is inspiring me to run it at this point (or even steal any ideas from it). What do you think makes this one stand out? Is there anything you can point to specifically? As a reminder I have only skimmed the first adventure at this point.

Nothing specific, it just struck me as an all-around exceptionally well done product. I also have a fondness for OA-styled adventures since some of my favourite gaming moments occurred during a 1e/2e D&D OA game back around 98/99, so it obviously checked some nostalgic boxes for me as well (despite being a different setting altogether).

As with anything that relies on subjective personal tastes, one person's trash is another's treasure. At the very least I hope my comment didn't cost you too much money.

 

[Porridge]

I don't generally use published adventures (actually I don't at all), but your comment made me want to check out the Jade Regent, so I picked it up. So, I need some help because I am not seeing what is fantastic about it. To be clear, I have only skimmed it so far, but it seems to be similar to most published adventures I have come across and nothing is inspiring me to run it at this point (or even steal any ideas from it). What do you think makes this one stand out? Is there anything you can point to specifically? As a reminder I have only skimmed the first adventure at this point.

I’ve definitely found that there’s a gap between how fun an AP is to play, and how fun it is to read/how fun it seems it’ll be after reading it.

I’ve found most Paizo APs to do pretty well in both respects. But if you’re looking for Paizo APs whose “wow” factor and “this will be so much fun to play” factor jump out from just reading the AP, I’d recommend taking a look at the Rise of the Runelords AP.

Or if you’re looking for particular parts of APs, whose “wow” factor shows through from a quick read, I’d suggest:

—Seven Days to the Grave (part 2 of Curse of the Crimson Throne): A fantastic and chilling medieval plague-style adventure. Arguably the best single volume from any AP.

—Souls for Smiggler’s Shiv (part 1 of Serpent’s Skull): A great Robinson Crusoe-style adventure, mixed with an Indiana Jones vibe.

—Rasputin Must Die! (part 5 of Reign of Winter): The party arrives on Earth (!) in the middle World War I (!!!). Another contender for single best single volume from any AP.

—Dance of the Damned (part 3 of Hell’s Rebels): A great urban/role-playing/skill-focused adventure centered around two events — a dinner party with an overwhelmingly powerful sorcerer, and a masquerade dance party hosted by the BBEG of the entire AP.

—In Search of Sanity (part 1 of Strange Aeons): The party wakes up with no memories of who they are, trapped in an insane asylum. A great Lovecraftian-horror adventure.

I could go on, but if none of those grab you, then maybe Paizo’s APs aren’t your cup of tea!

 

[dave2008]

I’ve definitely found that there’s a gap between how fun an AP is to play, and how fun it is to read/how fun it seems it’ll be after reading it.

I’ve found most Paizo APs to do pretty well in both respects. But if you’re looking for Paizo APs whose “wow” factor and “this will be so much fun to play” factor jump out from just reading the AP, I’d recommend taking a look at the Rise of the Runelords AP.

Or if you’re looking for particular parts of APs, whose “wow” factor shows through from a quick read, I’d suggest:

—Seven Days to the Grave (part 2 of Curse of the Crimson Throne): A fantastic and chilling medieval plague-style adventure. Arguably the best single volume from any AP.

—Souls for Smiggler’s Shiv (part 1 of Serpent’s Skull): A great Robinson Crusoe-style adventure, mixed with an Indiana Jones vibe.

—Rasputin Must Die! (part 5 of Reign of Winter): The party arrives on Earth (!) in the middle World War I (!!!). Another contender for single best single volume from any AP.

—Dance of the Damned (part 3 of Hell’s Rebels): A great urban/role-playing/skill-focused adventure centered around two events — a dinner party with an overwhelmingly powerful sorcerer, and a masquerade dance party hosted by the BBEG of the entire AP.

—In Search of Sanity (part 1 of Strange Aeons): The party wakes up with no memories of who they are, trapped in an insane asylum. A great Lovecraftian-horror adventure.

I could go on, but if none of those grab you, then maybe Paizo’s APs aren’t your cup of tea!

Thanks for the reply, several of those do sound interesting. However, more specifically interested in how: "...but it's design, presentation, included crunch, fluff, world lore... " are good / better than normal. From looking quickly at Jade Regent:

1. Presentation: I didn't see anything new or innovative that would make the module better to run (on a quick review). What is good / better about the Paizo presentation.
2. Crunch: a bit indifferent on this one. Only see a need for new crunch if absolutely required.
3. Fluff / world lore: I haven't gotten in depth into Jade Regent, so this may become apparent. However, I would fear it would be too tied to the world of Glorian (if I got that right), if this is truly exceptional. If not, what makes the fluff/lore so good?

 

[dave2008]

Nothing specific, it just struck me as an all-around exceptionally well done product. I also have a fondness for OA-styled adventures since some of my favourite gaming moments occurred during a 1e/2e D&D OA game back around 98/99, so it obviously checked some nostalgic boxes for me as well (despite being a different setting altogether).

As with anything that relies on subjective personal tastes, one person's trash is another's treasure. At the very least I hope my comment didn't cost you too much money.

No worries. Perhaps you could clarify one of the comments. You mentioned that the design / presentation was one of the better aspects. If didn't notice anything innovative in this regard on a quick pass. How do you feel it does well on that front.

FYI, in general I hate the 3e/PF1e book design / format / presentation and that is one reason I skipped that edition. However, I am not familiar with adventure design from the era either.