D&D 5E Are "evil gods" necessary? [THREAD NECRO]

[Bohandas]

But it just means at this point I'm trying to see if her being "evil" actually means something tangible to anyone in the game world? Do people within the Realms care that Umberlee is "evil"? Are there prejudices against people who pray to Umberlee because she is "evil", or is that an expected part of life for everyone?

I'd expect they'd offer praise and sacrifices to her as protection money. Or else they'd possibly court her presence to keep away an even worse god.

And I find that interesting as well personally, that no known Choir of Angels has assumed any place in the D&D multiverse with any staying power.

Of course, it doesn't help that nobody can spell Gwynharwyf

And evil gods do not all have "evil cultist" followers. Some have hard-working priests busy interceding to stop the evil god stomping on people.

Or you could do both like in that movie Cabin In The Woods

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That explanation doesn't really work in-setting. Inside the world of Faerun the causality would work the other way around; umberlee is evil and that's why the sea is treacherous. Which still leaves us with the question of why Umberlee is evil

So, you imagine there could be a world with a lawful good god of the sea, in which sailors always come back alive and there are no storms, pirates or sea monsters?!

 

[Aldarc]

It’s not as of a LG god of knights and chivalry means that every knight survives.

 

[Bohandas]

So, you imagine there could be a world with a lawful good god of the sea, in which sailors always come back alive and there are no storms, pirates or sea monsters?!

Yes. There's no in-setting reason why not.

In practical game design terms you'd lose options for pirate or shipwreck themed adventures but even in these terms it would work fine in a camapign where there weren't supposed to be any pirates or shipwrecks anyway (which honestly is probably most of them)

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes. There's no in-setting reason why not.

In practical game design terms you'd lose options for pirate or shipwreck themed adventures but even in these terms it would work fine in a camapign where there weren't supposed to be any pirates or shipwrecks anyway (which honestly is probably most of them)

Even if such a boring fantasy world existed, the gods of Faerun are inspired by the real world, which does have storms and pirates, if not sea monsters, and the themes seen in the personification of those natural forces. If you can't see it you haven't studied enough poetry.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Well ya can't have Chaotic Evil Drow without Lolth. She completely ruined em once she took em from Corrlleon.

Likewise, Tiamat is mandatory for Chromatic Dragons.

So yes they are necessary for things.

Eberron manages both. (Tiamat is in setting, but she is not the "cause" of chromatic dragon)

The problems with the celestial paragons is the absolute refusal of D&D to mine the same religious background as they did for the archdevils and demons.

So we get Asmodeus, Baalzebul, Belial, Orcus, Baphomet and so forth, but no Gabriel, Michael, Uriel, or Azrael (the last would be especially evocative - basically a male Raven Queen).

Instead, we get a whole bunch of interchangeable angels with no personalities, Aslan and a bunch of furries, and some fey lords who for some reason AREN'T Titania and Oberon. It's really a bizarre artistic choice.

For my homebrew I have scrapped the following:


1) Evil Gods (stupid and not how religion works)
2) The default Celestial paragons - I replaced them with Gabriel et al and the fey with Titania and co.

 

[Aldarc]

Even if such a boring fantasy world existed, the gods of Faerun are inspired by the real world, which does have storms and pirates, if not sea monsters, and the themes seen in the personification of those natural forces. If you can't see it you haven't studied enough poetry.

That’s the point. It’s not as if good gods of the sea are unheard of in real world cultures. I don’t think that most real world sea gods are even evil. Are you honestly arguing that the only possible flavor for sea god is Umberlee-flavored?

 

[Coroc]

One thing that always left me perplexed about evil gods in most D&D settings. If you are a faithful worshiper on one of them, you are guaranteed an afterlife of eternal torment. Doesn't sound too enticing. Their priests must have incredible marketing skills...

that is the price, the worshippers think they rule beside their demons and evil gods in their afterlife, but it turns out it all is deception

 

[Coroc]

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With all of this talk happening about the various peoples of D&D and whether they are inherently evil and is it due to their gods they worship and so on... it made me take a look at the gods themselves. And I realized that having a pantheon that includes "evil" gods seems to intrude and trod upon unnecessarily the path of devils, demons and other outer planar archenemies.

We have entities such as Asmodeus, Orcus and all their archdevil and archdemon fraternity/sororities... whose domains and what they find important and control seem to often get superceded by gods that control or influence the same thing. And because of the fact the game is built around the Cleric as one of the four primary classes... gods always tend to have a much more prominent place in any campaign. The archfey, archdevils, and archdemons get a bit of play now due toe warlock pacts... but even still... the god pantheon of any setting seems to usurp and stand above those entities.

It makes me wonder if perhaps having gods with morality attached to them ends up just superceding the domains of devils and demons and are not really a good add to the game? If we have a Demon Lord of the Undead... do we need a god in the setting's pantheon that rules over the same thing? If we have a demon of fury like Yeenoghu, does having a god of fury as well like Gruumsh gain us anything?

I know some people will say that more enemies allows for more stories... but at the same time I do wonder if we've been giving the archdevils and archdemons short shrift because invariably we use cultists of evil gods more than we do demon and devil worshippers. And as a result it has given us things like the "all orcs are evil because they worship an evil god as their patron deity" kind of thing. Maybe the solution is to keep gods above and beyond the kin of mortal thinking and not attribute them the morality that we humanoids have by actually assigning them alignments? They have their domains, but there's no moral decision as to whether what they control is good or evil? Just a thought.

what you depict is best resolved with a simplified planar view heaven - prime - hell.

then you can place your evil gods, demons and patrons all in one domain, making them all equal in status.

 

[Flamestrike]

One thing that always left me perplexed about evil gods in most D&D settings. If you are a faithful worshiper on one of them, you are guaranteed an afterlife of eternal torment. Doesn't sound too enticing. Their priests must have incredible marketing skills...

Evil Priest of Cyric, knocking on a laymans door:

Whoah, what do you mean 'eternal' torment? I mean, yeah - you'll start off as a Lemure, Dretch or Larvae, and while that's certainly no fun, remember - every Demon Lord, Archduke of Hell or Daemon Prince had to start somewhere. Play your cards right, and you'll be running the show in no time!

Think this through friend - really think this through - do you really want to spend literally all of eternity getting lectured on morals in the Seven Heavens, and sitting around a campfire singing hyms to Torm? How boring. I mean, what fun can one have in Celestia in any event?

Its better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven, my friend!

Look, if all that isnt enough for you bear in mind worshippers of the Black Sun can do whatever they want, whenever they want while alive as well! Screw those 'do gooder' churches telling you how to live your life. Someone standing in your way? Kill em, or have one of our cultists do it for you!

Sounds amazing right? Would I have joined for any other reason?

Here.... take this literature on Cyric, the one True God. Give it a read and let me know what you think!