D&D General Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity

[TheSword]

IMO, Nearly any race in D&D could be viewed as alluding to real world cultures or experiences of people of color.

Our hobby is heavily influenced by these things. It does mean we have to be careful. It’s why cultural consulting will become increasingly prevalent I think.

 

[Maxperson]

@Oofta, the problem is not the orcs per de but, rather, how the rhetoric the game uses to describe and talk about orcs has parallels (if not links via roots in colonialist literature) to the rhetoric that white supremacists use/have used about non-whites. A significant part of the calls for change pertain to changing the rhetoric for orcs and other “monstrous” humanoids.

The orc language parallels white supremacist rhetoric in the same way that the tallest peak in Chessenta parallels Mt. Denali. The one in Chessenta is not in a country like America. Nor is it shaped like the one in America. Nor does it have the same composition as the one in America. But it is the tallest! And with that people are stretching it to be like the one in America when it really isn't.

 

[TheSword]

Denying the experiences of people of colour is part of the problem and why this threat gets dragged into the long grass.

 

[FrogReaver]

Denying the experiences of people of colour is part of the problem and why this threat gets dragged into the long grass.

No one here is denying them.

 

[TheSword]

No one here is denying them.

There is a post above mine that compares rhetoric to an imaginary mountain in an imaginary country. The poster thinks he’s funny not realizing that this is one subject where humour falls very flat.

 

[Aldarc]

Sometimes proposing a potential solution instead of just lamenting that something is a problem goes a long way. Heck, if the solution is good enough others may not even care whether they agree that it was a problem in the first place.

Suggestions such as removing the racial penalty to Intelligence for orcs? Suggestions such as not having a monoculture of orcs? Suggestions such as removing the dehumanizing language? Yeah, solutions have been proposed before but they still get ignored in favor of people more keen on denying the existence of a problem.

 

[FrogReaver]

There is a post above mine that compares rhetoric to an imaginary mountain in an imaginary country. The poster thinks he’s funny not realizing that this is one subject where humour falls very flat.

that wasn’t denying anyone’s experiences. This is an example of the word twisting I keep talking about.

 

[Olrox17]

Ok, I have to comment here. You can't deny that all these groups have been oppressed. I mentioned the Celtic culture earlier. I'm Scottish and I'm not offended by certain tropes BUT my culture isn't CURRENTLY being oppressed. So, I can understand if certain groups would be offended by images of colonialism and what-not while they are simultaneously being treated unfairly.

I don't think it's fair to say, "We experienced this and coped, so you should get over it."
You should say, "We experienced this and understand. Here's how we can help."

For the record, My issue on the Orc debate doesn't deal with this aspect of people's complaints but I've already been over that.

My explanation was meant to illustrate how the "scary invader" depiction isn't something new or particularly original, it's a common human trope.
We are trying to find a solution (or at least, some posters are). The point of this thread is to find ways to both save D&D heritage, and improve inclusivity.

My current position is that I'm totally fine with having new "different" orcs, as long as the "traditional", standard, Gruumsh-loving evil orc is not expunged from the game.

 

[Oofta]

Suggestions such as removing the racial penalty to Intelligence for orcs? Suggestions such as not having a monoculture of orcs? Suggestions such as removing the dehumanizing language? Yeah, solutions have been proposed before but they still get ignored in favor of people more keen on denying the existence of a problem.

So instead of just beating the drum of "it's wrong" how about discussing if there's any option? Are ogres racist because they're stupid? Should people from eastern asia be offended because everybody knows [EDIT]asians[/EDIT] are short and more intelligent just like gnomes? Would it helped if we removed the -2 penalty to int if you play an orc?

 

[TheSword]

that wasn’t denying anyone’s experiences. This is an example of the word twisting I keep talking about.

Word twisting is saying people concerns are squeaky wheels, comparing examples of unpleasant experiences to big foot sightings. Now we see a poster comparing the problems to fantasy mountains. Its smokescreen stuff to justify systemic racism (I make no accusation of individual racism). If you and others keep arguing this stuff you’re gonna get a response.

You’ve claimed I’m not helping improve understanding but I’ve made the problem as simple as it can be.