OSR At What Level Is Survivability Possible?

[Voadam]

The question is at what level is a character survivable. The answer is "all levels, if you play smart." You can't go in there guns blazing like a D&D 5e character and expect to live.

Actually the original question was a little different.

What level do you think the game (or OSR in general) gives the characters a fair chance to survive a battle of even weak monsters?

Even if you play smart, being one shotted is a substantial risk in a battle against weak monsters in low level OSR.

 

[iserith]

Actually the original question was a little different.

It is. I'm saying, effectively, that there's another way of looking at it. Rather than trying to come up with ways to make the character more survivable, what is more useful is looking at how the players should play, given how the game works. So this isn't really on the DM to make adjustments, but on the players. I suggest not doing for the players what they can do for themselves.

Even if you play smart, being one shotted is a substantial risk in a battle against weak monsters in low level OSR.

Then don't fight them, provided that XP is gained through the acquisition of treasure. Figure out a way to get the treasure with minimal or no combat. Again, that's on the players and is, in my opinion, a key component to OSR-style play.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Absolutely. Though there could be plenty of character death, characters made it to 2nd level back in the day. It's not like people played AD&D for years, character after character, hoping that one would finally make it to 2nd level one day, until 3e came along. Sure, you had to be more cautious, but I think a lot of OSR folks play up the death and no-mercy thing these days. A lot of that, I think, comes from their earliest experiences being with the game being run by an unskilled and inexperienced DM that thought fun is a TPK.

As much as I can remember those early adventures, I started off with the weaker opponents. Kobolds, giant rats, skeletons, etc. It still started off as nerve-wracking, but you slowly built up to greater things. And that first +1 sword that's only other feature was shedding light, getting that felt like getting Excalibur itself.

Not sure what Old-School Essentials take is on it, but the whole death at -10 HP was a thing in the 1e DMG. That gives even the weakest PC a chance to get healed before they die.

But is it possible to make it past 1st level without heavy house-ruling and a benevolent DM/fudging dice?

 

[DND_Reborn]

5th level. That is the point IMO when you can survive most things--even if it means running away-- and can easily survive lower level monsters.

 

[Retreater]

OSE is death at 0 hp, roll 3d6 in order, no max HP, no magical healing at 1st level - all this is very different from what I remember of 2nd edition AD&D. And even then we were younger and didn't care as much about spending time starting over. So I guess some house rules are in order?

 

[Libramarian]

But is it possible to make it past 1st level without heavy house-ruling and a benevolent DM/fudging dice? I don't foresee a group surviving a single encounter, RAW. Unless you have like 8 PCs against 3 kobolds. Even then, a single kobold can one-shot about anyone in the party.
This encounter assumes that the PCs didn't avoid the fight by sneaking or talking their way out, because eventually everybody gets caught, and not fighting anything for months of sessions probably isn't fun (which realistically, that's what it takes to get to level 2 RAW).

Keep in mind that the kobold has only ~20% chance to hit the front-line fighter in plate. So the kobold might be able to 'one-shot' the fighter, but they're still expected to withstand a few attacks.

 

[Retreater]

Keep in mind that the kobold has only ~20% chance to hit the front-line fighter in plate. So the kobold might be able to 'one-shot' the fighter, but they're still expected to withstand a few attacks.

True. But it is difficult to afford plate at 1st level in the Basic system. Plus with the negative AC adjustment from a middling Dex score, sample fighter I rolled has a 15AC (I think).

 

[Libramarian]

Plate should only be 50 or 60 gp.

If his AC is over 10, you've definitely gone wrong somewhere.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

But is it possible to make it past 1st level without heavy house-ruling and a benevolent DM/fudging dice?

Well, by definition it must be possible, since it has occurred.

Yes, death was more frequent back then. Not just at low levels (low HP) but even when you get to higher levels (save or die etc.).

This tended to create a much more cautious style of play. There was a greater emphasis on "game mastery" and what people would call "meta knowledge" today (cautiously searching for traps, using poles, caltrops, fire, oil, etc.). As others have noted, you can hire henchmen too.

But yes, players survived.

 

[Voadam]

OSE is recreating B/X so that has lower HD than AD&D and later editions. I started with B/X and I am a fan.

Here are my issues with it though:

Thief skills are designed to fail until high levels, leaving thieves as MU's with no spells but leather armor and backstab. I'd prefer something like Necrotic Gnome's B/X Rogue as a variant to replace them.

1st level magic users have one spell. No casters have cantrips. Useful at will cantrips are great.

Healing is rare, clerics do not even get a spell slot until second level. I would want an unconscious condition at 0 HP and some healing mechanism like 5e HD or 3e reserve points.

Low level hp, being at risk of being one shotted or overwhelmed quickly in combat for more levels. I would want a boost to hp like +5 to everybody to start.

Save or die. The B/X rule book sample description of an adventure had a 2nd level thief Black Dougal check a chest for traps, finding none he opened it and found out he missed his find traps check. He got hit with a poisoned needle and missed his saving throw so instantly dead. He did everything right and died from a single missed save. Even though the save gets better with levels poison is a save or die single roll threat at every level. I'd prefer save or unconscious or save and something else.

Energy drain. Blech.

I remember a lot of whiffing at low levels. PC attacks are not that accurate.

It is a good rule set that is quick and will not require a ton of character sheet referencing.