OSR At What Level Is Survivability Possible?

[GMMichael]

A lot depends on both the DM and the players. There's no rule that you have to put a pit with poisoned spikes in your first adventure.

This. The one-and-only reason that PCs die is because the DM kills them.

Even if the PCs are suicidal reckless, the DM can kid-glove them out of trouble:

Low-level PC: There's a chasm and I can't see the bottom? How far across is it?

DM: It's only eight feet. And you're a few feet higher than the other side. But there's...

LLPC: I jump across (rolls d20, despite interrupting the DM). Three. Um, I get a dex bonus, right?

DM: But there's a plank of wood on your side that would span the gap.

LLPC: Oh, can we use that?

DM: You said that you jumped. And then you rolled a die to prove it.

LLPC: Yeah, I did. It's four if I add my dex bonus.

DM: That is (consults a table, despite rule zero) four feet. I guess you fall into the middle of the chasm. It's 50 feet down, so (rolls 5d6)...that's not good.

LLPC: What? How much damage do I take?

DM: You fall 50 feet, and your fall is broken near the bottom by a very loud, crunchy-yet-squishy pile of something. When your descent stops, you realize it's deathly pungent. You've hit a pile of dead adventurers.

LLPC: Oh, I see. You're going easy on me. That's cool. Now I know I can get away with whatever I want.

DM: I wouldn't count on it. Now your allies know that you're suicidal: jumping into the middle of a chasm. If they don't hold you back once in a while, you just might succumb to your mental health disorder.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Who cares if they do? It's D&D. Sometimes characters die. You play as smart as you can to avoid that outcome and hope for the best.

I guess you missed the point of the thread entirely.

 

[iserith]

I guess you missed the point of the thread entirely.

The question is at what level is a character survivable. The answer is "all levels, if you play smart." You can't go in there guns blazing like a D&D 5e character and expect to live.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

You play more carefully.

....but, if you do want to make it slightly more survivable, I would suggest allowing max hit points at first level. That one change tends to cure a lot of the swinginess, while retaining the danger.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Part of the OD&D gaming DNA is that anybody can do anything with a roll of 1 on a d6, equivalent to 18+ on a d20. It was (I think) explicitly stated that a fighter could take off their armor and scout out an enemy position with a not hopeless chance of success. Thieves can do not only that, but can do so in armor and a backpack with just shadows (not darkness) and silently (not quietly). That got transmitted to later editions with varying degrees of success.*

With that in mind, some suggestions.

• Increase thief HD to d6.
• Spell casters start with 3 1st level spells. (So, +2 1st level)
• 5 HP kicker.

That seems to have been enough where the magicians still had to resort to thrown oil and daggers, but could be more utilitarian rather than just casting sleep once. Thieves were more survivable, they aren't meant to be the glass cannons magicians are. And the 5 HP kicker helps prevent the single shot take out of a character as well as giving the DM and players a marker of "blooded". You had some marker when HPs were no longer luck, grit, or endurance but actually trauma and blood loss.

Alternatively, you could start them at 3rd level. Either way, it gives the characters a feel of being green without being fragile. One of the issues with low level D&D is that the characters are only the equal of the monsters, and they out number you.


*Not quite sure why I mentioned that, but it seemed germane.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The question is at what level is a character survivable. The answer is "all levels, if you play smart." You can't go in there guns blazing like a D&D 5e character and expect to live.

That's simply a false assertion, on both counts. Not only is it not true that 5E characters can routinely operate like that, it is false to say that merely "playing smart" will make your PC survivable at level 1-2 in OSR games. You can play as smart as you like, but if the DM exposes the party to certain risks, or the PCs are taken by surprise in ways that they couldn't mitigate, or they simply have to combat an enemy as part of their objective, and there's no way around it, no amount of "playing smart" will make it so you can survive taking 5 HP when you only rolled 3 HP and 0 = death.

At higher levels, if you have enough HP, you can increasingly mitigate stuff by playing smart. But if you roll really badly on HP (and the odds of this are quite good), you can remain in a position where you have little ability to survive.

At all levels playing smart increases survivability. But it false to imply it's even, or that at all levels it's enough. It isn't. At level 1-2, the chances of dying in a single hit are simply very high, to the point where survivability is not significant.

 

[iserith]

That's simply a false assertion, on both counts. Not only is it not true that 5E characters can routinely operate like that, it is false to say that merely "playing smart" will make your PC survivable at level 1-2 in OSR games. You can play as smart as you like, but if the DM exposes the party to certain risks, or the PCs are taken by surprise in ways that they couldn't mitigate, or they simply have to combat an enemy as part of their objective, and there's no way around it, no amount of "playing smart" will make it so you can survive taking 5 HP when you only rolled 3 HP and 0 = death.

At higher levels, if you have enough HP, you can increasingly mitigate stuff by playing smart. But if you roll really badly on HP (and the odds of this are quite good), you can remain in a position where you have little ability to survive.

At all levels playing smart increases survivability. But it false to imply it's even, or that at all levels it's enough. It isn't. At level 1-2, the chances of dying in a single hit are simply very high, to the point where survivability is not significant.

I think you're reading me a bit too literally there, chief. Obviously a D&D 5e character isn't invincible, but they are more survivable than an OSR-style character, meaning it is inadvisable to play the latter as if you're playing the former. In either game, bad rolls can mean the character's death. It's more likely in OSR-style games, which is why you work harder than you might in D&D 5e to avoid the dice being the determining factor in success. One way to do that is to avoid combats altogether if you can and to stack the deck heavily in your favor if you can't.

Of course, this doesn't mean that there is zero chance of character death. But unless the DM is taking death off the table entirely, then the reasonable expectation is that death can happen so one should play accordingly. So, at what level is survivability possible? All levels. If it wasn't, then nobody would make it past 1st level.

 

[CleverNickName]

@DMMike I agree...at low levels, the DM should definitely treat long-term campaign characters with "kid gloves."
I usually take those gloves off around 3rd level, though.

 

[TwoSix]

Just give the PCs 15 extra HPs at level 1. Now they're survivable but uncomplicated.

 

[Retreater]

But is it possible to make it past 1st level without heavy house-ruling and a benevolent DM/fudging dice? I don't foresee a group surviving a single encounter, RAW. Unless you have like 8 PCs against 3 kobolds. Even then, a single kobold can one-shot about anyone in the party.
This encounter assumes that the PCs didn't avoid the fight by sneaking or talking their way out, because eventually everybody gets caught, and not fighting anything for months of sessions probably isn't fun (which realistically, that's what it takes to get to level 2 RAW).