D&D General Session Zero and Nobody Chose a Spellcaster

[CreamCloud0]

Gaelien (the future Eldritch Knight) got the green light from the DM to use the druid spell list instead of the wizard. This gives the party access to Cure Wounds and Healing Word, so the situation probably isn't as dire as we had thought.

out of curiosity, are they still working with the abjuration/evocation restrictions of the EK with the druidic spell list?

 

[DEFCON 1]

What I should have said in more detail is more like; I do think the DM should change "blockers" i.e. say the only way through a critical door is with the spell knock and the party has no one who can use the conveniently found scroll of knock. Or the chasm that the only way to cross over is with a flying character (anti-magic zone) and they party doesn't have one.

Then IMO it is the duty of the DM to figure out some other way the party can complete the adventure. Not to say, oh, you got half-way through the adventure but you screwed yourself when no one picked a XYZ character.

I do agree with you here that at no point in an adventure should there ever be a single point in the plot that can only be gotten past by having some random thing or ability. Especially if the DM never tells the players that X Macguffin would be required to continue forward. These sort of "gotcha" moments are best left to the side-- especially when the "gotcha" could never have been anticipated or planned for.

So while I understand and can basically agree with other folks who say you do not need to change a pre-made adventure to suit the characters the players are playing... there's also no reason not to remove these sort of story-blocking chokepoints if an adventure gets written with one in by giving players at least a couple different ways they can continue. Even if it's something like just making a spellcaster NPC available for hire back in town if the party reaches a place where a magical assist would be warranted.

 

[Clint_L]

Yep. Per the DM: "We aren't adopting any of the 2024 revisions until all of the core books are released (and maybe not even then)."

That kind of sucks for the monk, though, if their goal is to be like an "Airbender" character as you say. Because the 2024 elemental monk delivers on that. The 2014...not so much.

 

[FrozenNorth]

What I have never seen is a group with ALL casters...

Our parties virtually always have a rogue. On occasion, the rogue was the sole non-caster.

 

[Clint_L]

I think there are two schools of thought on whether or not the DM should change the AP to suit the party of adventurers. I can see both sides of the argument.

I'm in the "Please don't" camp. We chose these characters, and we accepted that it would make the game more challenging for us. We're looking forward to rising to that challenge. It seems disingenuous for the DM to undermine that choice from behind the scenes, rebalancing the game for us so that it isn't more challenging.

My two coppers, anyway.

When I use published material with a group, I always alter it. For instance - my current beginner group has 8-9 players - they would CRUSH a normal AP.

 

[Retreater]

Has this ever happened to you? Have you ever been in a no-caster adventuring party? We're told this campaign will take us well past 16th level, so we are in it for the long haul. Any advice for a group of martials?

Yes. My groups regularly do this and then complain that they can't heal. Or they can't affect large groups of enemies because they don't have AoE spells. But no one wants to deviate from their character concepts so everyone has a bad time and the campaign collapses after a month or two.
I'm thinking in the future that I'll just assign people character classes. If they don't want to play the team-based game on its terms and play everyone as a DPS striker for maximum solo glory, we're just not playing the game.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Our parties virtually always have a rogue. On occasion, the rogue was the sole non-caster.

That party was:

• Tabaxi rogue arcane trickster
• Tiefling Pact of the Chain Genie Warlock
• Human Pact of the Blade GOO Warlock
• Human Circle of the Moon Druid

We had another party:

• Tabaxi Pact of the blade Celestial Warlock
• Fire Genasi Battlesmith Artificer;
• Water Genasi Evocation Wizard;
• Elf Beast Ranger.

 

[Charlaquin]

This happened to my friend Frodo. The campaign started when he found out a ring he had inherited actually belong to a BBEG and he had to flee home. First few sessions it was just four level-0 halflings. They came pretty close to TPK several times, and the DM got tired of saving them deus ex machina style, so when a new player joined the DM let him start with a higher level Ranger with some pretty silly ability scores. (I'm convinced he fudged the rolls.). Only later did a Wizard finally join the party, but along with 3 more fighters.

A party of nine was too much, and Frodo really did not like one of the new warriors...total spotlight hog...so they broke up into smaller groups and played different sessions.

Yeah, I remember watching the Actual Play. The DM designed a couple really big set piece encounters to try to challenge the huge party, and both times it was pretty devastating. First the wizard player sacrificed his character so the party could escape the balor, and took a break from the game (ended up coming back like a month later with a “new” character that was suspiciously similar to the last one, but the DM let it slide, probably feeling guilty about how obviously unfair the balor fight was at that level). Then one of the figher characters died and he joined the group with two of the original Halfling players. That guy seemed like kind of a problem player, he was constantly trying to initiate PvP.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Arcane Casters are less important in modern D&D.

Also, there are always Hirelings.

 

[CleverNickName]

out of curiosity, are they still working with the abjuration/evocation restrictions of the EK with the druidic spell list?

Yep. The only change the DM allowed was the class spell list. Originally the player wanted to use the Ranger list, but since the ranger doesn't have cantrips--and the DM was already doing her a favor and she didn't want to push her luck--the player decided to go with the druid list.

That kind of sucks for the monk, though, if their goal is to be like an "Airbender" character as you say. Because the 2024 elemental monk delivers on that. The 2014...not so much.

We mentioned it to the player, but he's not perturbed. We get to use the modifications in Tasha's, so it's not like he's stuck with the 2014 Core PHB monk. And besides: he's played monks before, so we trust he knows what he's doing.

If it were up to me (and it isn't), I'd pick up the Fighting Initiate feat, grab a cool fighting style, and then work with the DM to come up with a larger variety of spells that can be cast with Ki points. But I'm sure he's got something cool on the back burner, and he's got a couple levels to figure it out.

I should say that this player is more interested in his character being thematic and flavorful, and doesn't care all that much about optimization. He's the guy with the three-page backstory and a character sketch at Session Zero.