D&D General Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity

[Hussar]

Well, Giants-types(ogres and giants) are humanoid in shape. Are they going to get the same treatment?

Well, are people complaining that the language surrounding giants mirrors racist depictions of minorities? No? Then, probably not.

After all, giants are ALREADY more nuanced than orcs. We have all sorts of giants, from bestial to almost angelic. Good and evil. Smart and Stupid. And, giants are among the most powerful monsters in the game, so, it's not like it's a negative to be compared to a giant.

But, we've already been over this, repeatedly, so, I expect this will yet again fall on deaf ears.

 

[Maxperson]

Well, are people complaining that the language surrounding giants mirrors racist depictions of minorities? No? Then, probably not.

After all, giants are ALREADY more nuanced than orcs. We have all sorts of giants, from bestial to almost angelic. Good and evil. Smart and Stupid. And, giants are among the most powerful monsters in the game, so, it's not like it's a negative to be compared to a giant.

Er. Same with humanoids. We have all sorts from bestial(orcs and bugbears) to almost angelic(elves, though dwarves and halflings are also good). Good and evil, smart and stupid, humanoids are also among the most powerful monsters in the game, given that they can be given class levels or the monster equivalent.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Imagine, if you will, a world in which humans, demi-humans, and humanoids are all created by the heads of their pantheons. However, the gods that created humanoids are a greedy lot, and wanted to include a reason for them to not wander - they make it so their races can only get divine magic from within their respective pantheon.

So, they are free willed, not intrinsically evil. However, in their communities, the clerical power (so, healing in the community) comes from people willing to do the bidding of these gods, which is going to include keeping the flock in line, and influencing the community in the direction the gods prefer.

Orcs who were not made from evil. Why cannot they get divine magic from other sources. Their communities could have multiple shrines to other gods. Or if they do not believe in gods. Their faith could open up divine magic. So. These are not puppets of evil gods.

 

[Hussar]

Er. Same with humanoids. We have all sorts from bestial(orcs and bugbears) to almost angelic(elves, though dwarves and halflings are also good). Good and evil, smart and stupid, humanoids are also among the most powerful monsters in the game, given that they can be given class levels or the monster equivalent.

And, if you'll note, no one is talking about changing humanoids. So, job done.

Now, can we get back to the actual issue at hand - the depiction of orcs? Or, would you like to continue trying to derail the conversation?

 

[Maxperson]

And, if you'll note, no one is talking about changing humanoids. So, job done.

If giants are cool because of their mix, then so are humanoids of which orcs are one. Bestial giant and bestial orc.

Now, can we get back to the actual issue at hand - the depiction of orcs? Or, would you like to continue trying to derail the conversation?

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Xenonnonex]

What I understand. Skrull are militant conquerors. But. Captain Marvel turned a group into sympathetic refugees. Could do similar to orcs.
Propaganda paints them as evil. But groups are sympathetic.

Means. Simply killing is too simplistic. More importance needs to be in talking.

 

[Lanefan]

I'm not sure the english language has a good word for it, or at least not one that works for everyone.

For lack of a better term, I've of late started using "creature type(s)" as a catch-all.

So maybe species isn't the best word, but I don't know what else would be better unless you just make up a new word.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Call them humanoids. Or people.

Something that should be gotten rid of is calling them demihumans. Game heritage of that part is bad.

 

[Lanefan]

Just to throw another ingredient into this already-messy recipe:

There's another whole branch of "humanoids" that have been thus far ignored, and that's all the many fey and fey-like creatures - Sprites, Brownies, Leprechauns, Pixies, etc. - and their underground and marine equivalents - Mites, Jermlaine, Nymphs, etc.

These creatures carry an almost-universal tendency toward chaotic, which I'd be rather disappointed were they to lose.

 

[Hussar]

Just to throw another ingredient into this already-messy recipe:

There's another whole branch of "humanoids" that have been thus far ignored, and that's all the many fey and fey-like creatures - Sprites, Brownies, Leprechauns, Pixies, etc. - and their underground and marine equivalents - Mites, Jermlaine, Nymphs, etc.

These creatures carry an almost-universal tendency toward chaotic, which I'd be rather disappointed were they to lose.

Again, is anyone pointing to these as containing descriptions pulled straight from racist screeds? No?

Then it’s not a problem.

Why do people keep trying to broaden the issue to try to force some sort of panacea solution?

You have been shown repeatedly what the issue is. If no one is talking about giants or fae or genies it’s because it’s not the PROBLEM.

Why does this keep having to be repeated?