D&D 5E Question on diagonal movement with minatures (or VTT)

[tommybahama]

Hello tabletop heroes!

I have a question that came up in today's session. Suppose blue knight wants to use the Disengage action to move diagonally 30 feet along the yellow path without provoking an Opportunity Attack from the red enemy minotaur. Our DM says that's not allowed because it moves through the enemy minotaur's space. He ruled I would have to move along the green path which leaves me 5 feet short of where I wanted to be.

According to RAW, which is right? Can you give me a page # or other reference I can refer to in the future? I looked in the DMG on dndbeyond and couldn't find anything specific to this situation.

Our DM rules that if there was a medium sized enemy where the green 10 ft marker is then you couldn't squeeze between the two enemies to follow the yellow path. That seems fair enough. But here there is no other enemy on the opposite square.

 

[Hriston]

I don’t have a page reference right now, but your DM is wrong on both counts. Following the yellow path, you are neither moving through the minotaur’s space nor the space containing the 10 foot marker. You are only moving through the spaces that the path cuts across.

 

[Volund]

I would frame your question slightly different. Can you move from the square marked 5 ft to the square marked 15 ft using only 5 ft of movement? The answer should be the same whether or not you take the Disengage action.
"Entering a Square. To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left, even if the square is diagonally adjacent to the square you are in. (The rule for diagonal movement sacrifices realism for the sake of smooth play.)" PHB 191
"A creature's space is the area in feet that it effectively controls in combat, not an expression of its physical dimensions." PHB 191.
"Corners. Diagonal movement can't cross the corner of a wall, large tree, or other terrain feature that fills it's space." PHB 192.
My reading of this is that you would have to move along the green path to go around something that fills the entire 10x10 space, but since a monster does not physically fill a 10x10 space (except a gelly cube!), you can move diagonally past it along the yellow path. I don't know if this qualifies as RAW, but it's how my group plays on a grid.
FWIW, your DM's ruling isn't one I'd argue about. I've played in games where the DM used the optional diagonal rules from DMG 252 and they would say you should end your move one square short of the end of the green path. Since this applied equally to monsters it really didn't have a noticeable affect on playing the game.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I agree with Volund. The minotaur isn't square.

However, the yellow path would provoke an opportunity attack.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I agree with everyone else. The yellow line is legal. If the Minotaur was, instead, a square wall, you'd have to follow the green path because the wall would fill the full area.

 

[commandercrud]

RAW, the yellow path is correct.

But the DM is always right.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I'm going to be contrary to the developing consensus and say that it's a toss-up, so your GM is right in their game. Why a toss-up? Well, the argument that the minotaur doesn't fill the space is very true, but it does fully control the space, and you cannot move through a space fully controlled by an enemy without a special circumstance. So, for the purposes of 'is this space completely blocked from movement' the answer can very much be 'yes.'

 

[S'mon]

I use the 'diagonal move counts 1.5' option (ie the 3e not 4e approach) - but you'd still be moving straight from the 5 to the 15. And no opp att with disengage of course.

 

[Hriston]

I've been running combats theater-of-the-mind style with a graph paper map on the DM's side when needed, so I would measure out any diagonal movement with a ruler, in which case you'd end up one square back from where your DM put you.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I agree that by RAW your DM is incorrect on both accounts: you are not moving through a space occupied by the minotaur and even if another enemy was at the 10 ft square space, you can move along diagonals so you would not be stopped by that either.

One thing I think people sometimes forget when dealing with grids (either VTT or minis) is the space a creature "occupies" is not literally filled by that creature. This is why you can move through a non-hostile creature's space, you just can't end your move in their space. If you think about an elevator that might be 5' x 5', you could have 4-5 people standing in it without any issue (might be a bit tight, but not too bad really) despite D&D's medium creature occupying that entire space. It is also the reason why creatures can move through a space one-size category smaller than what they would normally occupy, they just spend extra movement while in smaller spaces and have disadvantage on attack rolls and DEX saves.

So, while the minotaur occupies a 10' x 10' space, there is plenty of room inside that area. Without optional rules from the DMG for Overrun or Tumble (pg. 272), you cannot move through the minotaur's space unless you are Small (or Tiny) or Gargantuan. However, since characters can move diagonally (not just horizontally and vertically), the blue knight is moving around the Minotaur's space, not through a square occupied by the minotaur.

However, if we change the map a bit and the double-black lines represented a wall, you would have to follow the red path, and you would be going through a square that is actually occupied by the minotaur. If your tables uses the optional Overrun or Tumble rules, you could try to move to the minotaur's space (white circle), and if you are successful continue moving along the red path. If your table doesn't use the Overrun/Tumble rules, you would have to go completely around the minotaur.

Finally, if you are using optional rules fo Overrun and Tumble, your table might want to adopt the optional rule for diagonal movement from the DMG pg. 252. The first diagonal counts as 5, then next 10, then 5 again, and so on, repeating. If you followed that, the blue knight would only move to here (the yellow arc showing about 30 ft of movement). As you can see, the diagonal rule works pretty well IMO:

Anyway, ultimately it is up to the DM and the table to discuss how you want movement to work in such cases and to make certain both the DM and players are consistent. You should point out that the blue knight was not threatened by the minotaur, and you are using your action to disengage to move safely by it. You could have just as easily moved and dashed, completely avoiding the minotaur and all squares around it.