D&D General (Anecdotal) conversations with Asian gamers on some problems they currently face in the D&D world of RPG gaming

[FrogReaver]

I am arguing the way you phrased your arguments is questionable. You worded your arguments form the assumption that Asians are "others," with all the baggage that includes.

The fact that you don't realize that suggest you don't know what I am talking about. Since it is not my area of expertise I will leave it at that.

When those that aren't asian are told their opinions on this don't matter or matter less, how should you approach talking about asian opinions on the matter? Genuinely curious?

 

[dave2008]

When those that aren't asian are told their opinions on this don't matter or matter less, how should you approach talking about asian opinions on the matter? Genuinely curious?

As I said I am not an expert at this, so I am not sure how to do respond. But you don't have to respond so that is always an option. However, I will try to address this based on the post I was responding too:

---
Argument 1
Why?
Because it is offensive.
To who?
A monetizing youtuber and some Asians

- here the term "monetizing youtuber" is clearly negative and the "other". By association it cast "Asians" as negative and other

So not all Asians?
No, but they have been brought up to grin and bear it.
So their opinions on this matter are false or disinegenous?

- this idea of negativity & otherness is then reinforced by describing them as false and disinegenuous.
---

How to do this better? I'm not sure. I am not sure what @Sadras is trying to say if not to slander (which I assume he/she is not trying to do). So I can attempt to re-phrase this, but I am not sure it get's across Sadras' point (because I am not sure what that is).

So here I go (trying to keep as close to the original as possible):
---
Argument 1
Question: Why?
Response: Because the product has some offensive content.
Question: To whom is it offensive?
Response: A person on youtube* and at least some Asian people
Question: So not all Asian people?
Response: We don't know the extent to which Asian people are offended by this content; however, their opinions are relevant and we should do what we can to understand and address all opinions/views on this product.

*Note: the personality in question receives financial benefits from people watching their stream.
---

FYI. To be clear I am not, at this time, advocating removal of the product. I just wanted to point out a less offensive way to discuss it.

 

[Immeril]

When those that aren't asian are told their opinions on this don't matter or matter less, how should you approach talking about asian opinions on the matter? Genuinely curious?

That one was thrown around alot in reply to Kwan's tweets.

 

[FrogReaver]

As I said I am not an expert at this, so I am not sure how to do respond. But you don't have to respond so that is always an option. However, I will try to address this based on the post I was responding too:

---
Argument 1
Why?
Because it is offensive.
To who?
A monetizing youtuber and some Asians

- here the term "monetizing youtuber" is clearly negative and the "other". By association it cast "Asians" as negative and other

So not all Asians?
No, but they have been brought up to grin and bear it.
So their opinions on this matter are false or disinegenous?

- this idea of negativity & otherness is then reinforced by describing them as false and disinegenuous.
---

How to do this better? I'm not sure. I am not sure what @Sadras is trying to say if not to slander (which I assume he/she is not trying to do). So I can attempt to re-phrase this, but I am not sure it get's across Sadras' point (because I am not sure what that is).

So here I go (trying to keep as close to the original as possible):
---
Argument 1
Question: Why?
Response: Because the product has some offensive content.
Question: To whom is it offensive?
Response: A person on youtube* and at least some Asian people
Question: So not all Asian people?
Response: We don't know the extent to which Asian people are offended by this content; however, their opinions are relevant and we should do what we can to understand and address all opinions/views on this product.

*Note: the personality in question receives financial benefits from people watching their stream.
---

FYI. To be clear I am not, at this time, advocating removal of the product. I just wanted to point out a less offensive way to discuss it.

I think you are missing alot of context related to Sadras's questions. I don't think anything you provided here actually answers those questions. Instead you answer different questions and dismiss Sadras's questions altogether. What happened to "peoples opinions are relevant and we should do all we can to understand and address all opinions?"

 

[Aldarc]

When those that aren't asian are told their opinions on this don't matter or matter less, how should you approach talking about asian opinions on the matter? Genuinely curious?

”Sympathetically and respectfully” seems like a good start.

I think you are missing alot of context related to Sadras's questions. I don't think anything you provided here actually answers those questions. Instead you answer different questions and dismiss Sadras's questions altogether. What happened to peoples opinions are relevant and we should do all we can to understand and address all opinions?

Based upon some of the non sequitors of discussion and people missing the main ideas in the OP’s 5 points, it’s difficult for me to say that all opinions are relevant. Or is this the rhetorical equivalent of “All Opinions Matter”?

 

[Sadras]

As I said I am not an expert at this, so I am not sure how to do respond. But you don't have to respond so that is always an option. However, I will try to address this based on the post I was responding too:

---
Argument 1
Why?
Because it is offensive.
To who?
A monetizing youtuber and some Asians

- here the term "monetizing youtuber" is clearly negative and the "other". By association it cast "Asians" as negative and other

So not all Asians?
No, but they have been brought up to grin and bear it.
So their opinions on this matter are false or disinegenous?

- this idea of negativity & otherness is then reinforced by describing them as false and disinegenuous.
---

How to do this better? I'm not sure. I am not sure what @Sadras is trying to say if not to slander (which I assume he/she is not trying to do). So I can attempt to re-phrase this, but I am not sure it get's across Sadras' point (because I am not sure what that is).

So here I go (trying to keep as close to the original as possible):
---
Argument 1
Question: Why?
Response: Because the product has some offensive content.
Question: To whom is it offensive?
Response: A person on youtube* and at least some Asian people
Question: So not all Asian people?
Response: We don't know the extent to which Asian people are offended by this content; however, their opinions are relevant and we should do what we can to understand and address all opinions/views on this product.

*Note: the personality in question receives financial benefits from people watching their stream.
---

FYI. To be clear I am not, at this time, advocating removal of the product. I just wanted to point out a less offensive way to discuss it.

Okay I think I see the confusion.

...(snip)...
Question: So not all Asians?
Response: No, but they have been brought up to grin and bear it.
Question: So their opinions on this matter are false or disinegenous?

I'm not the one who is implying the opinion of the Asians who are not offended is false or disingeneous, the responders are by claiming that Asians have been brought up to grin and bear it. It is painting the non-offenders as disingeneous with their answers when questioned if the material offends them. It further implies that the Asian Community has the same opinion - even if it is not expressed. That is hardly what I'd call respectful.

I hope I'm making mysef clear.

 

[FrogReaver]

”Sympathetically and respectfully” seems like a good start.

I don't jump through hoops. How about just assuming the questions were asked respectfully?

Based upon some of the non sequitors of discussion and people missing the main ideas in the OP’s 5 points, it’s difficult for me to say that all opinions are relevant. Or is this the rhetorical equivalent of “All Opinions Matter”?

Ask @dave2008 He's the one that said those words

 

[FrogReaver]

Okay I think I see the confusion.

...(snip)...
Question: So not all Asians?
Response: No, but they have been brought up to grin and bear it.
Question: So their opinions on this matter are false or disinegenous?

I'm not the one who is implying the opinion of the Asians who are not offended is false or disingeneous, the responders are by claiming that Asians have been brought up to grin and bear it. It is painting the non-offenders as disingeneous with their answers when questioned if the material offends them.

I hope I'm making mysef clear.

Was clear to me from the beginning.

 

[amethal]

I suppose it's easier to whine about a 35 year old book for 26 hours straight and how WotC is still profiting from it (seriously?! How many people are still playing 1e?) instead of, I don't know, giving WotC a list of suggestions with which to create a non-offensive 5e successor.

I have no idea how many people are playing 1e (it might be more than you think) but I expect the vast majority of them who were interested in the OA book already have it.

However, there is also a 3rd edition book called Oriental Adventures.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Okay I think I see the confusion.

...(snip)...
Question: So not all Asians?
Response: No, but they have been brought up to grin and bear it.
Question: So their opinions on this matter are false or disinegenous?

I'm not the one who is implying the opinion of the Asians who are not offended is false or disingeneous, the responders are by claiming that Asians have been brought up to grin and bear it. It is painting the non-offenders as disingeneous with their answers when questioned if the material offends them. It further implies that the Asian Community has the same opinion - even if it is not expressed. That is hardly what I'd call respectful.

I hope I'm making mysef clear.

This association is disingenuous. To the point of baffling. No one is doing that. Only you are. Dismissing opinions. And making absurd connections.
Not everyone thinks alike. Not everyone has the same experiences. Should be at least heard from everyone. Not casually dismissed. And accusations made about.
Stop trying to speak for others.