WotC Older D&D Books on DMs Guild Now Have A Disclaimer

If you go to any of the older WotC products on the Dungeon Master's Guild, they now have a new disclaimer very similar to that currently found at the start of Looney Tunes cartoons.

We recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website, does not reflect the values of the Dungeon & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

The wording is very similar to that found at the start of Looney Tunes cartoons.

Edit: Wizards has put out a statement on Twitter (click through to the full thread)

 

[pming]

Hiya!

My problem with this line of thinking, with worrying about "but what about in 6e when this is banned or 7e when that is banned" is that it is a cry for inaction.

The insidious thing is, that it doesn't even matter if something is actually wrong and needs fixed or not, with this line of thinking changing or banning anything no matter how harmful or how grotesque would need to be opposed.

...and this (inaction) is bad because...?

I don't care how "harmful or grotesque" some book is, it should NEVER be banned. Same goes for thoughts and opinions.

What AM I fearful of? Getting to the convention, starting up a game of OA...then having a convention official come over and say "You guys can't play that anymore. Someone complained that you were being racist, discriminatory and non-inclusive because you were playing a game with 'That label' on it". THAT is the only 'fear'. That a single person can be offended and have the power to completely cancel my right to play what I want, how I want, with who I want....even though that person wasn't playing, wasn't invited to play, and simply walked by and saw what we were playing and "felt offended".

Of that...EVERYONE should be afraid.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[pming]

Hiya!

This is quite disingenious. I assume you're talking about Terese Nielsen. We're not talking about someone who has followed Mitt Romney on Twitter. We're talking about someone who follows/likes/retweets material from Mike "Pizzagate" Cernovich and from frickin Infowars. You know, the monster who claims the Sandy Hook massacre was a hoax. She also donates art to QAnon conspiracy theorists.

I love Infowars! So much entertainment! I mean, Alex Jones is comedy gold! Then again, any extremist is I guess.

But Alex isn't scary. What is scary? That someone thinks it's completely reasonable to get someone fired because they like Mike Cernovich and Infowars. That's messed up. What's next? "You eat meat! You need to be fired!".

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[BookTenTiger]

I don't care how "harmful or grotesque" some book is, it should NEVER be banned. Same goes for thoughts and opinions.

What AM I fearful of? Getting to the convention, starting up a game of OA...then having a convention official come over and say "You guys can't play that anymore. Someone complained that you were being racist, discriminatory and non-inclusive because you were playing a game with 'That label' on it". THAT is the only 'fear'. That a single person can be offended and have the power to completely cancel my right to play what I want, how I want, with who I want....even though that person wasn't playing, wasn't invited to play, and simply walked by and saw what we were playing and "felt offended".

Of that...EVERYONE should be afraid.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

I understand that you feel nervous about playing a game that has been identified as having some old-fashioned ideas about race in a public space. That's a good feeling, you should be nervous to do so. Hopefully it would drive you to take a look at what you are going to run and ask, "Are there any changes I should make now so that this game is appropriate for a public space?"

On the other hand, I feel like your fear is running away with you! No one is threatening to ban you from playing the games you enjoy playing. Adding a disclaimer to old media in now way means you cannot access it, run it, enjoy it, and teach others about it.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

There's a lot to unpack here, but I think overall you are saying "media I enjoy being labeled as problematic makes me feel uncomfortable."

Is that right?

Not exactly. I'm not "feeling uncomfortable". I'm feeling "annoyed".

It took a lot of discussion, and thinking, and reading for me to realize that I exist within a system of oppression, racism, sexism, ageism, etc etc etc, and that though realizing this can make me feel uncomfortable, it is important to be able to see the flaws in our system so I can work to make it better.

I disagree wholeheartedly with this. You say you came to "realize that (you) exist within a system of oppression, racism, sexism, ageism, etc...". I don't see it. Are there people who are racist, sexist, etc that work in public positions? Yup. Does that mean the "system" is based on it? Not even remotely.

(And, by the way, that's why I became a teacher!)

You are absolutely right that there's no line where realizing something is or isn't problematic ends. That's because it's a cycle. It's a cycle of creation, reflection, discussion, and revision. It's a cycle that's been happening for a long time in D&D and other media too, and will continue. And it should! We should never stop talking about this- wouldn't that be the true censorship?

I have no problem with that. If WotC makes a new "oriental adventures" and does whatever they think they need to in order to cover their collective "sensitivity check boxes" to make it as non-problematic as possible. That's what they SHOULD do. But trying to list old products as "bad" helps no one. It's not going to change those books; they are what they are. Some may find them offensive, most, from my experience, had no problem with it in any way, shape or form. In fact, I never heard a peep about it being "offensive" until recently (year or two).

So write a new book and "do better". But leave the other books alone. Period. Don't ban them, don't try and derride them with a 'warning lable' or whatever. In the new "oriental adventures" just make a note in the beginning "The previous incarnations of this product were [insert whatever]. This edition hopes to remove such outdated terms and persumptions".

I want to challenge you on this, Paul.

You acknowledge that this disclaimer makes you feel harmed and uncomfortable, because you are worried about being labeled a racist. I understand that fear.

I want you to try and empathize with those who read these older materials and see harmful depictions of their own culture and identity, whether intentionally included or not. Do you see how they could also feel harmed and uncomfortable?

I don't think a disclaimer is the final line here. As has already been discussed, WotC (and Hasbro) needs to take a lot of steps in hiring a more diverse staff and being welcoming to more diverse voices.

Acknowledging that harm has occurred, though, is a necessary step towards making positive changes. It can be an uncomfortable step, as you are experiencing. But I think it's okay to enjoy old media, even if there are harmful stereotypes. You just have to be aware and accept the responsibility to not carry those forward. And a disclaimer is a great way to prepare people to do just that!

Not "harmed or uncomfortable". Just annoyed. It's unfortunate if someone feels 'harmed or uncomfortable' when reading a fantasy roleplaying game book...but that's not, to put it bluntly, my fault or my problem. They have to find a way to deal with it. I find things others may say online, in print, or in a movie or video game "uncomfortable"...but I don't think it's up to the other person to try and make me feel 'safe'. That's on me.

For example, this. While I don't feel 'harmed or uncomfortable' with the disclaimer....I do find it annoying because I can see it causing me a lot of head aches in the future. Not just me, but any "old school player".

The disclaimer isn't going to do anything positive. That's all I'm saying, basically.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[GreyLord]

Everyone and noone. I'm not Japanese, and I have a very strong opinion that Oriental Adventures is gross and that Wizards of the Coast needs to make an appropriate and timely response. A lot of not-Japanese people share that opinion, and a lot of Japanese and Japanese-American people share that opinion... and a lot of people who are both Japanese and not-Japanese do not share that opinion.

I don't believe WotC's response has been appropriate. This is me, right now, exercising all of the authority I believe anyone but WotC should have in this matter-- and I hope enough other people are doing so in sufficient numbers to encourage a more thorough response.



Yes, I agree-- actually, wholeheartedly, 100%. My problem with "the disclaimer" as WotC has implemented it... is that they slapped the disclaimer on every pre-5e product, when not every TSR legacy product needed a disclaimer and their own 4e products are, in general, much better than their current products in this regard. It shows a lack of understanding and a lack of effort toward actually making up for the past-- and a staggering disrespect for the authors of the past who, problematic or not, have not received a dime in years for those products.

It's lazy, gutless, and stupid and I don't think there's any section of their fanbase this is actually going to satisfy.

I think part of the reason this was done was once the OA statements were made about doing something about OA, multiple people came out pointing out other items in multiple books from 1e to 3e that they found equally or more offensive. There WERE MANY who pointed out problems from everything from the 1e PHB and MM, to various 3e books.

Now granted, I'm not personally aware of any major complaints against 4e books and so that took me by surprise, BUT, there are a LOT of accusations of various discriminatory portions of MANY of the rulebooks currently. Many of these have not been completely checked out yet (probably) and many of them were not even thought of yet in regards to being offensive. This means that they are not quite sure of ALL the material that may be found offensive yet in various books from other editions of D&D. It is easier to put up a warning overall when they are not sure what the next item someone is going to highlight about being offensive is. It may be that the entire editions of older versions of D&D are offensive to someone. Rather than offend them, or take all the editions down thus offending others, at this point a disclaimer probably seemed the most logical path to take at this point in time.

These editions are done. They are over. No one is writing for them or making them in any official status anymore. There probably will not be any editing in general of them because 5th edition is the current edition that is being sold and worked on. Because it is the version they are currently printing in large amounts and generating material for, it is far easier to edit and change things about it to try to avoid the problems many have had with earlier editions. They have limited manpower to publish and edit, and thus are using that manpower to work on the items most people will encounter in relation to D&D today.

At least that's my take on the disclaimer and the situation on why it was put on so many products.

 

[dave2008]

Hiya!



Honestly? Nope. I can't see how these changes are going to help other players feel more included. How? "Here's a book that you may find things offensive. But it's ok now, we put a sticker on the front. Good? Ok, lets roll some dice!"

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Hiya!



Not exactly. I'm not "feeling uncomfortable". I'm feeling "annoyed".



I disagree wholeheartedly with this. You say you came to "realize that (you) exist within a system of oppression, racism, sexism, ageism, etc...". I don't see it. Are there people who are racist, sexist, etc that work in public positions? Yup. Does that mean the "system" is based on it? Not even remotely.




I have no problem with that. If WotC makes a new "oriental adventures" and does whatever they think they need to in order to cover their collective "sensitivity check boxes" to make it as non-problematic as possible. That's what they SHOULD do. But trying to list old products as "bad" helps no one. It's not going to change those books; they are what they are. Some may find them offensive, most, from my experience, had no problem with it in any way, shape or form. In fact, I never heard a peep about it being "offensive" until recently (year or two).

So write a new book and "do better". But leave the other books alone. Period. Don't ban them, don't try and derride them with a 'warning lable' or whatever. In the new "oriental adventures" just make a note in the beginning "The previous incarnations of this product were [insert whatever]. This edition hopes to remove such outdated terms and persumptions".




Not "harmed or uncomfortable". Just annoyed. It's unfortunate if someone feels 'harmed or uncomfortable' when reading a fantasy roleplaying game book...but that's not, to put it bluntly, my fault or my problem. They have to find a way to deal with it. I find things others may say online, in print, or in a movie or video game "uncomfortable"...but I don't think it's up to the other person to try and make me feel 'safe'. That's on me.

For example, this. While I don't feel 'harmed or uncomfortable' with the disclaimer....I do find it annoying because I can see it causing me a lot of head aches in the future. Not just me, but any "old school player".

The disclaimer isn't going to do anything positive. That's all I'm saying, basically.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Wow, that was a depressing and disappointing response. I think I need to stop checking in on this thread.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Wow, that was a depressing and disappointing response. I think I need to stop checking in on this thread.

Ditto.


I think I've said my peace on it. More of the same isn't going to help. I'm not going to convince anyone else, and I doubt I'll be convinced otherwise. So I agree: "I think I need to stop checking in on this thread". Good call, dave2008!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Hussar]

Hiya!



...and this (inaction) is bad because...?

I don't care how "harmful or grotesque" some book is, it should NEVER be banned. Same goes for thoughts and opinions.

What AM I fearful of? Getting to the convention, starting up a game of OA...then having a convention official come over and say "You guys can't play that anymore. Someone complained that you were being racist, discriminatory and non-inclusive because you were playing a game with 'That label' on it". THAT is the only 'fear'. That a single person can be offended and have the power to completely cancel my right to play what I want, how I want, with who I want....even though that person wasn't playing, wasn't invited to play, and simply walked by and saw what we were playing and "felt offended".

Of that...EVERYONE should be afraid.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

So, your position is that your right to play a game that you KNOW offends people (and you know that because they've told you) in a public place, such as a convention, trumps their right to feel safe and welcome at the same place.



That's just sad.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Reality is that large-nose goblins is the norm.

There's literally one artist who draws them that way. It's not "the norm", and he's only drawn them in what, 4E and 5E? Plus it's not the type of nose that's associated with stereotypes, it's merely a large one. Nor do they hit any of the other stereotypes.

 

[Aldarc]

There's literally one artist who draws them that way. It's not "the norm", and he's only drawn them in what, 4E and 5E? Plus it's not the type of nose that's associated with stereotypes, it's merely a large one. Nor do they hit any of the other stereotypes.

Goblins in 4e:

And then goblins in 5e: