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Worlds of Design: Rolls vs. Points in Character Building

Let’s talk about methods of generating RPG characters, both stochastic and deterministic.

Let’s talk about methods of generating RPG characters, both stochastic and deterministic.

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Picture courtesy of Pixabay.
"Life is like a game of cards. The hand you are dealt is determinism; the way you play it is free will." Jawaharlal Nehru

When creating character attributes, there are two broad approaches to generating them: stochastic and deterministic. The stochastic method involves chance, while the deterministic method does not. Most any other method is going to be one of the other, whatever the details. The pros of one method tend to be the cons of the other.

Stochastic
The classic method is rolling dice, usually D6, sometimes an alternative like percentage dice. There are various ways do this. For example, some of the old methods were to sum the roll of 3d6 six times in a specific order of six character abilities. A variation was 3d6 and change the order as desired, another was roll 4d6, don’t count the lowest die, and then you might be able to change order or not; and so forth.

What are the pros of rolling the dice? First of all and primarily, variety (barring cheating). You get a big range of dice rolls. Dice rolling promotes realism, you get a big variation in numbers so you get some 3s, in fact you get as many 3s as 18s, and with some methods you have the opportunity to play characters with “cripplingly bad" ability numbers. Further, it's always exciting to roll dice, whether you like it or not. (Keep in mind, when I first saw D&D I said “I hate dice games.”)

One of the cons of rolling dice is that it's unfair in the long run, a player can get big advantages lasting for years of real-time throughout the campaign just by getting lucky in the first dice rolls. This can be frustrating to those who didn't get lucky. Perhaps even more, rolling dice encourages cheating. I've seen people roll one character after another until they get one they like - meaning lots of high numbers - and then they take that to a game to use. That’s not possible with point buy. Another con is that you may want to play a particular character class yet the dice just won’t cooperate (when you’re rolling in specific order).

Deterministic
The other method which I believe has been devised independently by several people including myself (I had an article for my system published a long time ago) is the one used in fifth edition D&D. A player is given a number of generic points to buy ability numbers. The lowest numbers can be very cheap, for example, if you are using a 3 to 18 scale, when you buy a 3 it may cost you one point, while an 18 may cost 20-some points. You decide what you want, for which ability, and allocate until you run out of points.

Point buy is very fair (FRP is a game, for some people). No one need be envious of someone who either 1) rolled high or 2) rolled many characters and picked the best one. It prevents the typical new character with sky-high abilities, it prevents cheating, so the player has to supply the skill, not rely on bonuses from big ability numbers. Of course, the GM can choose the number of points available to the players so he/she can give generally higher or lower numbers on average as they choose.

But point buy lacks variety for a particular class. The numbers tend to be the same. It's not exciting, it’s cerebral, and as such it takes a little longer than rolling dice. That's all the cons I can think of. Keep in mind I'm biased in favor of point buy. It's clean, fair and simple.

I haven’t spent much time trying to figure out yet another method of generating a character. The only other method I can think of that isn’t one or the other is to have some kind of skilled contest determine the numbers, such as pitching pennies or bowling. Then the question becomes why use one kind of skill over another?

Do you favor one method over the other? And has anyone devised a method that is not stochastic or deterministic?
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio

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3rd had points buy, it just that at that time it wasn't used much. It was an option in the DMG.

I never really considered 3e; After quitting 1e, I didn't look back for a couple decades. I glanced over 4e, but 2019 was the first time I seriously contemplated a return to d20.

But whatever the system, I think point-buy is the way to go.
 

clearstream

(He, Him)
But whatever the system, I think point-buy is the way to go.
I think it has some strong advantages. Current I use a deck of 18 cards, from which three are distributed randomly to each ability score. (So effectively, draw and assign in order, no replacement.) The cards are marked 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5.

As you can see, the range is 6 to 15, and no more than one 6 and one 15 is possible. A possible array would be 15, 14, 12, 9, 7, 6. My aim was to shift the ability modifier left a point or so. The effect is to make encounters slightly harder: player characters fail a bit more often.
 

aramis erak

Legend
Why would one hope that? The setting is where the campaign takes place. It's cardboard and sawdust as soon as you peek behind the frames.

Just like everything else, the setting is in service to the campaign and the game, not the other way around.
Unless the setting itself is the reason for the campaign. As in wanting to experience the setting. Hence, all those licensed games.
 

aramis erak

Legend
"your character is dead and never coming back" hasn't been a default caused-by-the-rules detail in a long time, so it's still very odd to try and treat that as an analog to "didn't roll good enough stats to play a paladin"
Outside D&D, "dead is dead" often is the standard. D&D and its direct emulations have had resurrection magic since before 1977.
Most of the other strains, be they fantasy, sci-fi, or historical, don't do resurrections.

The published Sci-Fi settings that do have resurrection of "most sincerely dead" characters are few... Car Wars, GURPS: Transhuman Space, Dune, Dr Who, anything with multiple timestreams that you can drag them across from.
 

aramis erak

Legend
Seems like that this is not a point buy issue in the slightest. It's a "I have my one character type" player issue. You can easily permit point buy and say that you can't create the same character or even class. I'm not sure why obvious solutions are so easily passed over in favor of blaming it on point buy.
The player type in question can't pull that kind of ‹expletive›head behavior if the GM is insisting on random rolls in order. They can play what's rolled, walk away, or sit there and fume.

Point buy enables that particular form of ‹expletive›hat behavior.

Seems like that this is not a point buy issue in the slightest. It's a "I have my one character type" player issue. You can easily permit point buy and say that you can't create the same character or even class. I'm not sure why obvious solutions are so easily passed over in favor of blaming it on point buy.
The first step in discovering the character is "what races do I meet the requirements of" - right along with class the same way.
 

Ulfgeir

Hero
Outside D&D, "dead is dead" often is the standard. D&D and its direct emulations have had resurrection magic since before 1977.
Most of the other strains, be they fantasy, sci-fi, or historical, don't do resurrections.

The published Sci-Fi settings that do have resurrection of "most sincerely dead" characters are few... Car Wars, GURPS: Transhuman Space, Dune, Dr Who, anything with multiple timestreams that you can drag them across from.

Don't forget Paranoia, where you have a bunch of clones. And Eclipse Phase, If your stack can be reclaimed or you have a backup of your mind. Then it is only the problem of geting a new body.
 

Aldarc

Legend
The player type in question can't pull that kind of ‹expletive›head behavior if the GM is insisting on random rolls in order. They can play what's rolled, walk away, or sit there and fume.

Point buy enables that particular form of ‹expletive›hat behavior.

The first step in discovering the character is "what races do I meet the requirements of" - right along with class the same way.
I can't say that I agree, and I doubt that anything we say will change either of our minds.
 

Point buy is certainly fairer. However, you get a very limited number of character builds -- they all have a maximum primary attribute, and they all tend to look the same.

To me this is a reflection of how bland D&D 3.X and earlier were that you get such a limited number of character builds and that mechanical +1s are arguably the biggest point of difference between two characters of the same class.

If you look at two AD&D fighters they are almost mechanically the same other than their weapon proficiencies and possibly their weapon specialisation (and/or mastery). The only thing that's different about them is their equipment and their favourite weapons. Worse than that the weapons aren't equal and it's a deliberate design decision that swords are the best and also the most common sort of magic item, so any sensible fighter is going to be a sword wielder. About the only mechanical things they can be different in that's not pure equipment is where +1s go - their stat selection and (in 2e) their non-weapon proficiencies. Oh, and their alignment and race.

By contrast in 5e a Battlemaster is not an Eldritch Knight is not a Champion. They've different mechanics and special abilities - and that is the primary "next level" of character differentiation beyond the build. The third level is (or at least should be) the traits you pick and are mechanically incentivised to pick out. Race comes in probably fourth and sometimes third. Skills are more generally relevant than NWPs and are again about who your character is and the choices they make - and choices are far more important for RP than generalised talent. This pushes attributes way down the list.

Even where the AD&D classes have subclasses it's little different. A 2e illusionist (a 1e illusionist was an entirely separate class) differs from a 2e evoker in that they get more spells in their specialty and there's a subset of spells they can't cast. A 5e illusionist on the other hand is good with illusions to the point a high enough illusionist can make parts of normal illusions real. Meanwhile even a low level 5e evoker can control their evocations in ways that a non-evoker archmage would struggle to, and protect their allies from their spells. Your specialty is an active change in what you do - far more impactful.

The more viable character options, the less similar PCs of the same class look - and so the less benefit there is in rolling stats.
 

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