Level Up (A5E) Class redesign

[Gradine]

You do run the risk of "analysis paralysis" as well as the dreaded "trap" options the more and more choice points you introduce to character building and development. The most important step would be to make all three pillars of the game serve equal importance and therefore maintain relatively similar levels of complexity. Class level options can thus be granulated so that each level provides benefits to one of the three pillars. For instance, at level 2, the Ranger has a handful of class options to choose from, but each of them apply to the exploration pillar. In this way, you don't have to feel like you're giving up combat effectiveness in order to improve in what optimizers would otherwise consider less important aspects of the game.

 

[Stalker0]

I also don’t think I need a “class choice” at every level. Now I don’t mind if at 3rd level I make a class choice, 4th is a feat choice, 5th is a class choice...thst is fine to me. But I don’t need class choices at every level along with everything else

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

I like the fact that updating your character sheet after leveling is very fast in 5e, and I'd be more interested in playing a game that can keep that feature. If I wanted a round of microtransactions every time I level up, I'd be playing PF2.

The kind of meaningful choice I want is the one that happens during actual play, and I want that to be available to all classes and archetypes while still allowing a player to just resort to a basic maneuver ("I attack") if that's what that player wants to do. For example, I want to play a game where choosing between firebolt and ray of frost is meaningful because reducing an opponent's speed creates a real tactical advantage.

Also, I want the concept of meaningful choice applied at the three pillars of play. I like the fact that everybody can try the basic tasks related to various skills, but I want skill proficiency to open new and better options, and the same would be true of tools, and even weapons and armor (which reminds me: special maneuvers available to any proficient character but tied to specific weapons would be a very nice fit).

 

[Haldrik]

You do run the risk of "analysis paralysis" as well as the dreaded "trap" options the more and more choice points you introduce to character building and development.

For me, "analysis paralysis" is never a problem.

Each class is like a pregenerated character that selects the default feats. If there are 12 or so classes, then the most popular archetypes are already covered.

Only a player who actively wants, would swap out the default for something else.

For a player who is happy with the default, the game is super simple.



Since every feature is a lego-like unit, there are no trap options, because any trap option (or broken option) can be updated in isolation.

 

[Haldrik]

Cantrips and martial weapon proficiencies are comparable. Swapping one for the other is no problem.



Judging by other editions of D&D.

1 martial weapon proficiency is significant. (Primary Weapon.)
2 are better. (Secondary Weapon.)
3 arent much better. (Tertiary Weapon.)
4 are barely a boost, thus if a person knows 4 martial weapons, they become able to use any and every martial weapon from anywhere.



Perhaps the same is true for cantrips. 4 cantrips means can use any cantrip.

However. If someone knows 3 martial weapons and 1 cantrip, they still dont get access to every martial weapon.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I think things like Skill Proficiencies, Tool Proficiencies, and Languages would be neat choices at different levels.

I play as a Wizard in my primary D&D game, so it feels like I get a significant choice (2 new spells in my spellbook) at each level. It's fun!

 

[ccs]

Sounds like you guys are on track to re-invent Pathfinder 2.

 

[DEFCON 1]

That’s what I mean by choices.

If this is truly what you are trying for... then I think what you are going to have to do is build one "blank" generic class. Figure out the different feature slots for each level, and then put every single game and class feature and every spell into one big selection pot. This is the only way you are going to be able to balance all the features against each other, while simultaneously determining the level prerequisite for each feature as well. Basically you need to Skills And Powers your game.

Once you do that... get all features, spells, and selections created and their costs determined... can you then be able to build your standard classes out of the system. You won't ever need to multiclass ever again, because you can select the features you want at every level, some of which will match the "class builds" you will supply with the book (for those people who don't wish to create their own build for their character. )

 

[dave2008]

In general I agree with the OP, with a minor change:

• meaningful benefits at each level with more choices, so you look forward to your level up every time
• balanced with the original core classes to ensure compatibility
• strong capstones for all classes

 

[dave2008]

The design is, every level gets one feat. This feat can be used to purchase a class feature, archetype feature, species feature, background feature, or a feat to specialize.

All classes normally use the feat to get class and archetype features at specific levels. But a player can swap these out to get a different feat, including a feat from a different class.

At level zero, there is a setup, where the character already comes with feats, including basic proficiencies and so on, and where the "feat" is normally used to gain an additional species feat. A cantrip is swappable for a martial weapon proficiency, or a light armor proficiency.



The normal schedule is from an other thread.

L	TIER	CLASS	SPECIES	FEAT	BACKGROUND
−			Species
0	ZERO	Archetype
0				Feat
0		Class
0					Background
1	BASIC	Archetype
2				Feat
3		Class
4			Species
5	EXPERT	Archetype
6				Feat
7		Class
8					Background (Followers)
9	MASTER	Archetype
10				Feat
11		Class
12			Species
13	OFFICIAL	Archetype
14				Feat
15		Class
16					Background
17	LEGEND	Archetype
18				Feat
19		Class
20			Species
21	IMMORTAL	Archetype
22				Feat
23		Class
24					Background

No thank you. That is basically the PF2e approach. If you want that, go play PF2e. I would prefer a less rigid structure to Level Up!