Level Up (A5E) Class redesign

[jmucchiello]

It's a new game. You could make it so Level Up characters can't multiclass until they reach a certain minimum level in their base class, like 3rd for example.

That wouldn't stop dips, just delay them. You'd also have to say once you take a second class you have to even out the levels of the class. And wording that would be error prone.

 

[glass]

Level 1 Subclasses are a must.

Contrariwise, I am not convinced that subclasses are required at all.

_
glass.

 

[ThatGuySteve]

Can more classes have flavourful ability refresh triggers? A few wizard subclass abilities refresh on casting a spell of their associated school, rather than on a short or long rest. It helps them lean into the focus of the subclass.

Monks are almost there, they refresh on a short rest, specifically including 30 minutes of meditation.

Clerics could have a refresh on casting a domain spell, druids on casting a circle spell. Rangers could refresh abilities on killing the target of a Mark ability. Warlocks on killing the target of a curse.

 

[ART!]

Random brainstorm which helps tie meaningful class choices at each level with beefing up other pillars of the game. If levels cycled through the 3 pillars of play, and you made a choice between three of a particular pillar at each level so that by level 18, say, you have 6 combat, 6 exploration, 6 social abilities. Plus each class’s choices are different of course.

Maybe the fighter has some strong hunting choices, the rogue some good scouting choices, the ranger some good navigation choices, the cleric some good auspicious journey blessing choices, the bard some marching songs, and so on.

I was just thinking about this kind of thing way too early this morning. I'd love to see the classes have social and exploration features that are just as rigorous and useful as the combat features. That would probably require robust social and exploration mechanics for those features to interact with.

To avoid too many new subsystems, I'd be tempted to use the structure of combat rounds and turns as a template for how social and exploration activities work. So, you'd have social and exploration equivalents of initiative, attack rolls, "damage" rolls, crits, movement, actions, bonus actions, reactions, concentration, etc.

Are there some class features too intrinsically linked to a class to remove? Is a Barbarian without Rage just a Fighter or (spelless) Ranger? Could I have a Burglar Rogue who doesn't know how to expertly shank someone with Sneak Attack?

Hunter's Mark and Curse were key components of Ranger and Warlock in 4E but were changed to a spell choice in 5E, you can build characters without them now.

Barbarian is a tough one to crack since so many existing abilities interact with Rage in some way. Rogue without sneak attack could be doable though? Maybe you can choose between sneak attack and getting some Use an Item actions as a bonus action: throw alchemist fire, drop caltrops or ball bearings, drink a potion. You could be more of a gadget rogue than a stabber.

Are there other classes with a feature that is too iconic to mess with?

I think you are on spot: I dont think there's any features in any class that it vital to a class design.

Like you said, sneak attack could be ditched in favor of a list of items to throw, like the first UA artificer had. Or poisons uses, like the 4e executioner.

Barbarian could ditch in favor of Shouts, those a quite popular since Skyrim, but were already a thing in Diablo 2.

Druid's wildshape (I see it as an Exploration feature, myself) could be changed to an improved Beast Sense or Animal Companion like the Warg from ASoIaF.

Yes, please!!!! I am a big fan of these ideas. It opens up so many more different builds.

Recently I've run a couple of rogue Inquisitives, and really digging their features, to the point that I'd rather be using their keen observations to give bonuses to allies, rather than just providing another way to get advantage for themselves so they can do their Sneak Attack.

I'd love to have something other than Wildshape for druids, if only because I don't like having two versions of my character to track. I literally have never run a druid for that reason. I tend to not run spellcasters for similar complexity reasons, in my defense.

And if there's not a spell-less ranger in there, why even bother with any of this.

I firmly believe we should look to the Warlock for good class design (not necessarily perfect, it still has issues, but hear me out).

The warlock offers choices of class (warlock), subclass (pact), style (boon), powers (spells), and specials (invocations). I haven't had as much fun building a character, mechanically speaking, as I have with a warlock (ensuring I don't have too many concentration spells, looking for something to use with my reactions and bonus actions, choosing spells and invocations ...)

Beyond that, I also firmly believe each class should have something to do with it's bonus action round by round. Martial arts/ki and Cunning Action are great designs. Fighting styles could have been the same.

I also believe each class should be playing with a little mini system that ensures each class plays differently.

Again, I don't have a lot to add, but I would really like to see this. That warlock build structure allows for so many variations. Just don't build them with a tree structure that isolates you from too many features the higher level you get. I always wind up feeling stuck in those kinds of systems. You really have to know where you're going with that structure, and that's a barrier to new players, I think.

 

[battlebaby]

We‘ll do an actual survey on this later, of course. This is just in the spirit of getting the discussion going. This is a general approach discussion not one about any specific class, or about subclasses at this stage.

One thing I’ve personally found is that levelling up isn’t as exciting as it has been in some other editions. I don’t know how much others share this, but that’s what surveys are for!

So here are some initial thoughts:

• meaningful choices at each level so you look forward to your level up every time
• balanced with the original core classes to ensure compatibility
• strong capstones for all classes

General thoughts welcomed!

All those above plus different resources = different play styles:

• use Exhaustion, Reaction, HD as resources.
• pushing beyond limits, or an extra use of a limited ability: wizard cast one extra 9th level spell by opting 4 exhaustion levels?!
• I personally not a fan of 10 minutes spell duration because of book keeping, what about last until the end of combat or scene? (What's a scene?)
• barbarian rage is a tricky ability: what happens in a combat when the barbarian run out of rages? can you opt to take an exhaustion level to rage one more time? Can you have instead 1 rage per encounter?
• can spellcasting classes use HD to recover expended slots during a short rest (wizard recover more)
• can wizard arcane recovery be a pool equal to 1/2 wizard level you can use to recover expended slots?
• can wizard prepare new spells during a short rest at a price: HD cost?! half of orginal number of spells yoh can prepare?!

Just some options.