Level Up (A5E) Class redesign

[ScuroNotte]

so, basically 4E?

Never played 4E. But If it was, then let’s incorporate it into the Advanced 5E

 

[tetrasodium]

Never played 4E. But If it was, then let’s incorporate it into the Advanced 5E

4e is extremely extraordinary different from 5e

 

[doctorbadwolf]

4e is extremely extraordinary different from 5e

That’s just not true. It’s mildly different.

 

[Morrus]

Random brainstorm which helps tie meaningful class choices at each level with beefing up other pillars of the game. If levels cycled through the 3 pillars of play, and you made a choice between three of a particular pillar at each level so that by level 18, say, you have 6 combat, 6 exploration, 6 social abilities. Plus each class’s choices are different of course.

Maybe the fighter has some strong hunting choices, the rogue some good scouting choices, the ranger some good navigation choices, the cleric some good auspicious journey blessing choices, the bard some marching songs, and so on.

 

[Haldrik]

Care to explain this a little? Sounds intriguing.

Old-school 1e Unearthed Arcana, is more like the 5e Dungeon Masters Guide. It is more like a book of variant options.

There is no systematization in 1e UA. For example, "gestalt" is: your character is two classes at the same time, and is simply way more powerful. But that is the option. And so on. It is more like brainstorming. Occasionally, there are interesting things.

 

[Haldrik]

Random brainstorm which helps tie meaningful class choices at each level with beefing up other pillars of the game. If levels cycled through the 3 pillars of play, and you made a choice between three of a particular pillar at each level so that by level 18, say, you have 6 combat, 6 exploration, 6 social abilities. Plus each class’s choices are different of course.

Maybe the fighter has some strong hunting choices, the rogue some good scouting choices, the ranger some good navigation choices, the cleric some good auspicious journey blessing choices, the bard some marching songs, and so on.

Some cautions.

Since some abilities have dual-use, in and out of combat, it seems likely the char ops will select those utility abilities that can enhance combat.

Also, 4e advancement was organized to have specific kinds of abilities, like combat versus utility, at specific levels. This made designing new things more difficult. The structure to make up new spells, or so on, became increasingly rigid and inflexible. Things became more difficult to balance, because they had to be balanced for only a specific level. The 4e game became increasingly dependent on the official game designers to put out new things. Creating new things was less in the control of the DM and players.

I love 4e, and love its balance. Just saying that the way it did it by dedicating certain levels to certain kinds of things came at a price.

 

[ThatGuySteve]

Random brainstorm which helps tie meaningful class choices at each level with beefing up other pillars of the game. If levels cycled through the 3 pillars of play, and you made a choice between three of a particular pillar at each level so that by level 18, say, you have 6 combat, 6 exploration, 6 social abilities. Plus each class’s choices are different of course.

Maybe the fighter has some strong hunting choices, the rogue some good scouting choices, the ranger some good navigation choices, the cleric some good auspicious journey blessing choices, the bard some marching songs, and so on.

Would all classes follow the same pattern, or different depending on the classes playstyle? Eg Bards get social at 1st, exploration at 2nd, combat at 3rd, Fighters get Combat at 1st, Exploration at 2nd, Social at 3rd?

What would the mix of subclass features be in this? An even split, 4/2 class/subclass, or different for each class?

How would this interact with full casters? Casters generally don't get features at odd levels because they are getting the next level of spell progression and can choose spells know (or can prepare any spell from a broad list). Would casters get a weaker option at those levels to balance against news spells?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Random brainstorm which helps tie meaningful class choices at each level with beefing up other pillars of the game. If levels cycled through the 3 pillars of play, and you made a choice between three of a particular pillar at each level so that by level 18, say, you have 6 combat, 6 exploration, 6 social abilities. Plus each class’s choices are different of course.

Maybe the fighter has some strong hunting choices, the rogue some good scouting choices, the ranger some good navigation choices, the cleric some good auspicious journey blessing choices, the bard some marching songs, and so on.

That would honestly be great if you are to pull that one! That is a lot of work! It kinda reminds me of 4e Utilities Powers at every 4(?) level.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

So the class chassis would look something like this?

level	feature
1	Class' basic feature X, Y Z, Archetype's Feature
2	Combat Feature
3	Exploration Feature
4	ASI
5	Social Feature
6	Archetype feature
7	Combat Feature
8	ASI
9	Exploration Feature
10	Archetype Feature

 

[ThatGuySteve]

Some cautions.

Since some abilities have dual-use, in and out of combat, it seems likely the char ops will select those utility abilities that can enhance combat.

Also, 4e advancement was organized to have specific kinds of abilities, like combat versus utility, at specific levels. This made designing new things more difficult. The structure to make up new spells, or so on, became increasingly rigid and inflexible. Things became more difficult to balance, because they had to be balanced for only a specific level. The 4e game became increasingly dependent on the official game designers to put out new things. Creating new things was less in the control of the DM and players.

I love 4e, and love its balance. Just saying that the way it did it by dedicating certain levels to certain kinds of things came at a price.

Also a fan of 4e, but the Utility powers were very unfocused. They were more likely to give you a choice of combat, exploration and social at the same level, leading to players picking up nothing but combat powers.

The idea of a specific level giving choices that match only one pillar seems safer. There will be some overlap, but that's fine, encounters often have elements of more than one pillar in them.