Level Up (A5E) What is the vision of the high level fighter?

[Chaosmancer]

Yep, I remember your list. None of those are what a high level fighter should be IMO. A couple are close, but most are "mysticy" versions I have no interest in, personally. Even the ones that are close, are generally over the top. But, that is because I don't like demigod or superhero games for D&D. If I wanted such things, I would put them in levels 21-30.

The thing is, most people seem to be in agreement that DnD characters are "supernatural" by level 11 or 12

I'm basing this off of the halfing and gnome discussions, but everyone seemed to say they were fine with the strength 20 halfling by that level.

So, saying that the "mystical" fighters shouldn't come online until after level 20, seems to be against the general feel that everything is more magical by level 11

 

[FrogReaver]

The thing is, most people seem to be in agreement that DnD characters are "supernatural" by level 11 or 12

I'm basing this off of the halfing and gnome discussions, but everyone seemed to say they were fine with the strength 20 halfling by that level.

So, saying that the "mystical" fighters shouldn't come online until after level 20, seems to be against the general feel that everything is more magical by level 11

there’s a vast difference in being slightly above natural levels and being all out magical. You can describe slightly above natural as magical but it’s two different levels we are talking about.

 

[Micah Sweet]

there’s a vast difference in being slightly above natural levels and being all out magical. You can describe slightly above natural as magical but it’s two different levels we are talking about.

Forgive me if you've explained this, but what do you think high level fighters should be able to do? I personally can't think of anything hovering around human limits that a 10th level fighter couldn't accomplish.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

So I propose this: when designing high level fighter abilities their power source should typically be external to the fighter.

whether that’s a blessing of a god or having an empire of loyal servants or being a demigod or having tons of magical items to augment their fighting, etc the power source for most of a fighters high level abilities should be external to himself. I think that solves all potential issues with conceptualization.

I kinda agree.

But, are those power source built in the class progression?

For example: the artificer is quite dependent on magic items, but the class gave him access to them without asking the DM to hand them over, at least partially.

If a fighter gains power from the outside, should it be written as a class feature (Ex: At level 11, you gain your choice of one magic weapon or armor of your choice) or still be in the hand of the DM at the meta-level of the game (DM's are encouraged to give X magic items to the fighter by level Y)?

I once played around with the idea of fighter infusing their equipment with their heroic destiny, picking lesser/greater artifact effects from the DMG to add to their weapon/armor as they gained level. A little like Aragorn's Andùril or Arthur's Excalibur, empowered by and empowering their wielder by their shared destiny/history.

The weaponmaster fighter from AiME has a list of power-up to add to its weapon to make it legendary (calling its name X/day to frighten enemies, + x damage against enemy type, advantage to social with X culture/race etc)

 

[Minigiant]

Yep, I remember your list. None of those are what a high level fighter should be IMO. A couple are close, but most are "mysticy" versions I have no interest in, personally. Even the ones that are close, are generally over the top. But, that is because I don't like demigod or superhero games for D&D. If I wanted such things, I would put them in levels 21-30.

I offered versions like the Fighter-Lord and the Mastermind who are barely past the mundane. And those were turned down.

but my post offered a counter argument to the reasons against having. Many of those elements.

after all no one says the warlock is off limits because all characters should be able to make deals with powerful entities.

IMO the community is fine with such Classes, they just don’t realize it yet.

But people here have said stronghold, magic swords, and bons are of limits because wizards could get them.
And when I responded that perhaps fighters progress at them better because magic spells are hard, that wasn't accepted either.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The thing is, most people seem to be in agreement that DnD characters are "supernatural" by level 11 or 12

I'm basing this off of the halfing and gnome discussions, but everyone seemed to say they were fine with the strength 20 halfling by that level.

So, saying that the "mystical" fighters shouldn't come online until after level 20, seems to be against the general feel that everything is more magical by level 11

You could well be correct. But, in that light I also feel the move from 1 to 10 is too quick often IME. My preference of play is in the lower levels, capping around 12th maybe? That is why I developed both a L10 and L12 variant. It tamed down spellcasters who still got "high magic" but not as much, and allowed the full (or close to it) progression of class features otherwise. It kept HP generally lower over all with a cap at 12th, making many monsters viable threats at those levels (which by level 17-20 would be push overs until you used a dozen, which made little sense...).

My general progression for ability scores matches proficiency as closely as possible, so you won't likely see a 20 on my characters unless my proficiency is +5 or better. That is slower than the halfling and gnomes strongmen, but IMO allows the game to be more challenging without having to use more powerful monsters or tons of them.

I would be fine if the uber-fighters didn't really roll out until tier 4 maybe. I, for one, like WotC's base design of local hero, regional hero, continental (?) hero, and world hero for tiers 1-4 respectively.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I offered versions like the Fighter-Lord and the Mastermind who are barely past the mundane. And those were turned down.

Well, I can't speak for others who "turned down" some of your options, but the Fighter-Lord is probably the one I would most support. The Demigod and Reaper I could also see some promise in depending on the game, etc.

 

[FrogReaver]

I offered versions like the Fighter-Lord and the Mastermind who are barely past the mundane. And those were turned down.


But people here have said stronghold, magic swords, and bons are of limits because wizards could get them.
And when I responded that perhaps fighters progress at them better because magic spells are hard, that wasn't accepted either.

it is accepted though. Look at the warlock. Not one complaint despite the warlock being premised on something anyone could do.

 

[Minigiant]

it is accepted though. Look at the warlock. Not one complaint despite the warlock being premised on something anyone could do.

But that's the warlock.

There's a whole battle on how the fighter should look after level 12. Lots of complaining. Very few examples of what is wanted.

 

[FrogReaver]

I kinda agree.

But, are those power source built in the class progression?

For example: the artificer is quite dependent on magic items, but the class gave him access to them without asking the DM to hand them over, at least partially.

If a fighter gains power from the outside, should it be written as a class feature (Ex: At level 11, you gain your choice of one magic weapon or armor of your choice) or still be in the hand of the DM at the meta-level of the game (DM's are encouraged to give X magic items to the fighter by level Y)?

I once played around with the idea of fighter infusing their equipment with their heroic destiny, picking lesser/greater artifact effects from the DMG to add to their weapon/armor as they gained level. A little like Aragorn's Andùril or Arthur's Excalibur, empowered by and empowering their wielder by their shared destiny/history.

The weaponmaster fighter from AiME has a list of power-up to add to its weapon to make it legendary (calling its name X/day to frighten enemies, + x damage against enemy type, advantage to social with X culture/race etc)

yes. Powers have to be built into class progression. they can be a choice though like lacy boons.