Level Up (A5E) Multiclass Subclasses

[Xeviat]

5E multiclassing works, and a plus side is that it fits a narrative, and story is more important than mechanics fans like myself give it credit for. But so much of 5Es power scaling is tied into class level, like ability score bonuses being part of class progression and the power jumps at 5th, 11th, and 17th built into most classes. Outside of specific OP builds, multiclassing can really hurt your character.

But what if there's another way? Pathfinder 2 offers multiclassing as feats, spending your class feats on multiclassing instead of spending your levels. 5E doesn't have class feats (and I don't think it should, I think class choices should be limited to subclass, style, and some fun little things: the warlock is the best example of this). What 5E does have is Subclasses. So what if Subclasses could fill the roll of multiclassing for some characters? We already have the Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, and Bladesinger that kind of do this. Arcana cleric and War cleric kind of do too, nature cleric and trickery cleric also.

My purpose here is to get ideas for what the Subclasses could be if you looked at the 121 combos of the PHB classes. I'll post an empty list, copy and paste and then fill in your ideas:

Barbarian
Barbarian/Bard:
Barbarian/Cleric:
Barbarian/Druid:
Barbarian/Fighter:
Barbarian/Monk:
Barbarian/Paladin:
Barbarian/Ranger:
Barbarian/Rogue:
Barbarian/Sorcerer:
Barbarian/Warlock:
Barbarian/Wizard:

Bard
Bard/Barbarian:
Bard/Cleric:
Bard/Druid:
Bard/Fighter:
Bard/Monk:
Bard/Paladin:
Bard/Ranger:
Bard/Rogue:
Bard/Sorcerer:
Bard/Warlock:
Bard/Wizard:

Cleric
Cleric/Barbarian:
Cleric/Bard:
Cleric/Druid: (Nature?)
Cleric/Fighter: (War?)
Cleric/Monk:
Cleric/Paladin:
Cleric/Ranger:
Cleric/Rogue: (Trickery?)
Cleric/Sorcerer:
Cleric/Warlock:
Cleric/Wizard: (Arcana?)

Druid
Druid/Barbarian:
Druid/Bard:
Druid/Cleric:
Druid/Fighter:
Druid/Monk:
Druid/Paladin:
Druid/Ranger:
Druid/Rogue:
Druid/Sorcerer:
Druid/Warlock:
Druid/Wizard:

Fighter
Fighter/Barbarian:
Fighter/Bard:
Fighter/Cleric:
Fighter/Druid:
Fighter/Monk:
Fighter/Paladin:
Fighter/Ranger:
Fighter/Rogue:
Fighter/Sorcerer:
Fighter/Warlock:
Fighter/Wizard: (Eldritch Knight?)

Monk
Monk/Barbarian:
Monk/Bard:
Monk/Cleric:
Monk/Druid:
Monk/Fighter:
Monk/Paladin:
Monk/Ranger:
Monk/Rogue:
Monk/Sorcerer:
Monk/Warlock:
Monk/Wizard:

Paladin
Paladin/Barbarian:
Paladin/Bard:
Paladin/Cleric:
Paladin/Druid:
Paladin/Fighter:
Paladin/Monk:
Paladin/Ranger:
Paladin/Rogue:
Paladin/Sorcerer:
Paladin/Warlock:
Paladin/Wizard:

Ranger
Ranger/Barbarian:
Ranger/Bard:
Ranger/Cleric:
Ranger/Druid:
Ranger/Fighter:
Ranger/Monk:
Ranger/Paladin:
Ranger/Rogue:
Ranger/Sorcerer:
Ranger/Warlock:
Ranger/Wizard:

Rogue
Rogue/Barbarian:
Rogue/Bard:
Rogue/Cleric:
Rogue/Druid:
Rogue/Fighter:
Rogue/Monk:
Rogue/Paladin:
Rogue/Ranger:
Rogue/Sorcerer:
Rogue/Warlock:
Rogue/Wizard: (Arcane Trickster?)

Sorcerer
Sorcerer/Barbarian:
Sorcerer/Bard:
Sorcerer/Cleric:
Sorcerer/Druid:
Sorcerer/Fighter:
Sorcerer/Monk:
Sorcerer/Paladin:
Sorcerer/Ranger:
Sorcerer/Rogue:
Sorcerer/Warlock:
Sorcerer/Wizard:

Warlock
Warlock/Barbarian:
Warlock/Bard:
Warlock/Cleric:
Warlock/Druid:
Warlock/Fighter:
Warlock/Monk:
Warlock/Paladin:
Warlock/Ranger:
Warlock/Rogue:
Warlock/Sorcerer:
Warlock/Wizard:

Wizard
Wizard/Barbarian:
Wizard/Bard:
Wizard/Cleric:
Wizard/Druid:
Wizard/Fighter: (Bladesinger?)
Wizard/Monk:
Wizard/Paladin:
Wizard/Ranger:
Wizard/Rogue:
Wizard/Sorcerer:
Wizard/Warlock:

 

[Xeviat]

Obviously, I don't think we should make this many Subclasses. But!, Having a universal number of archetype features and a universal archetype multiclassing system could make this doable.

 

[aco175]

I'm not sure what I'm wanting on multiclassing. Part of me wants to get rid of the 3rd level path and offer another class instead. Maybe a lessor form of the class somehow. I find that a 6th level PC with 3 levels in 2 classes will also have 2 paths and it feels a bit overmuch.

 

[CleverNickName]

I'd like to remove most of the classes iand turn them all into subclasses of Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard. But that's a bit beyond the scope of the "Level Up" project. Backwards-compatibility would be a major issue.

And I realize that I'm in the minority here. Most folks today want dozens of nearly-identical classes that can be combined with dozens of nearly-identical subclasses.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Obviously, I don't think we should make this many Subclasses. But!, Having a universal number of archetype features and a universal archetype multiclassing system could make this doable.

I think that if the classes all have the same archetype progression (say, at 1st, 3rd, 7th, 10th, 15th and 18th level) it would be quite easy to create multi-class-as-subclasse that could be taken by any class.

Ex:
Wizard Initiate:
1st: gain 2 cantrips. Ritual caster, trained in Arcana and scribe tools.
3rd: Spellcasting 1/3 (ala Eldritch knight)
7th: Expert ritualist: halve the time of rituals, can cast ritual spells known by allies if you have the right caster level.
10th: Arcane recovery (ala Wizard)
15th: Initiate's implements: Magic items with charges regain + half your prof bonus at dawn. When using a scroll, roll a d6, on a 6 it is not consumed.
18th: Battlemagic: when you cast a spell or cast a cantrip, you can make a weapon attack as a bonus action.

 

[Horwath]

I'd like to remove most of the classes iand turn them all into subclasses of Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard. But that's a bit beyond the scope of the "Level Up" project. Backwards-compatibility would be a major issue.

And I realize that I'm in the minority here. Most folks today want dozens of nearly-identical classes that can be combined with dozens of nearly-identical subclasses.

this is getting close to the NPC classes of Expert, Mage, Warrior.
which I do like.

and all concepts could go from these base 3 classes.

 

[NotAYakk]

I think grid filling leads to crappy subclasses. Let us not do that.

 

[CleverNickName]

this is getting close to the NPC classes of Expert, Mage, Warrior.
which I do like.

and all concepts could go from these base 3 classes.

I do miss the NPC classes. One of my favorite "zero to hero" characters back in 3rd Edition started out as a Commoner.

 

[Horwath]

I do miss the NPC classes. One of my favorite "zero to hero" characters back in 3rd Edition started out as a Commoner.

you can make a "0 level" like character in 5E.

d4 HD, wizard's armor and weapon proficiencies and only race and background features. with +1 proficiency bonus.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

One of the benefits of "re-writing the PHB" is that you can make simple changes to facilitate easy expansion, even if doing so would require changing all of the core classes. I mean, if you're going to re-write the classes anyway, then that opens up some big opportunities.

My suggestion, to facilitate multi-classing as sub-classes, is to standardize the levels at which each core class gains a sub-class benefit. If every core class gained their sub-class benefits at level 2/5/8/11/14/17/20 (for example), then you could implement a multi-class option where you gain core class features instead of sub-class features. If you wanted to be an Eldritch Knight type of character, then you could represent that as a level 20 fighter, who effectively has all of the features of a level 7 wizard instead of having a sub-class.

That way, you don't need to fill out a grid for what a ranger/barbarian and a ranger/bard look like; it's literally just ranger + barbarian class features, and ranger + bard class features.