Level Up (A5E) What is the vision of the high level fighter?

[tetrasodium]

old spell slots are the ultimate arbitrary make no sense at all as much or as little as daily.

I see encounter powers as easily being various things which one could nail down to fit the 5e paradigm

arbitrary sure, but they've gotta measure a unit of energy somehow. The benefit of slots over encounter powers is that the caster can decide how to spread those throughout the adventuring day based off situations while with encounter powers you use them every encounter.

 

[Garthanos]

arbitrary sure, but they've gotta measure a unit of energy somehow.

right that is a spell point system you just said not slots.
Slots are I can do a bloody 9th level spell but damn cannot do a first?

 

[Garthanos]

Slots were were not even actually vancian. A vancian spell from the stories were more like encounter powers you could cast after you had time to read them from the book.

 

[Garthanos]

while with encounter powers you use them every encounter.

And I fail to see that as a problem it allows fluctuation in capability that never quite becomes throwing darts.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Ok. I think I have the right answer:

- Take all the half-casting classes, including monk, and make them 9-level casters, with each their own spell list with few overlap (it would require more ''smite'' and ''exhortations'' spells for the paladin and more ''locate X'' and ''arrow/weapon trick shot'' for the ranger, though). If a bard can get 9th level spells, rangers and paladins can too.

- Then remove the fighter, rogue and barbarian from the playable class.

- Then, make some of the remaining classes' archetypes be pet subclasses with their special thing being: those caster's pets are those classes you just removed! That's right, you could have a pet fighter or rogue or barbarian (I'd call it slayer or rager or juggernaut), you know, just like the new UA ranger gets to decide between 2 stat blocks: Beast of the earth or Beast of the air.
Instead of having a dumb panther as your pet, the X Cleric as a loyal rogue. He can use its bonus action to command it to do X, Y, Z, and the rogue automatically move, dodge, hide or dash on its turn. A little like in Dragon's Crown where the rogue is only acting in the background when you command it.

- Then have working rules for retainers, to hire other meat-shields & loot-monkeys for your casters.

how'bout it?

(j/k, just in case)

 

[tetrasodium]

Ok. I think I have the right answer:

- Take all the half-casting classes, including monk, and make them 9-level casters, with each their own spell list with few overlap (it would require more ''smite'' and ''exhortations'' spells for the paladin and more ''locate X'' and ''arrow/weapon trick shot'' for the ranger, though). If a bard can get 9th level spells, rangers and paladins can too.

- Then remove the fighter, rogue and barbarian from the playable class.

- Then, make some of the remaining classes' archetypes be pet subclasses with their special thing being: those caster's pets are those classes you just removed! That's right, you could have a pet fighter or rogue or barbarian (I'd call it slayer or rager or juggernaut), you know, just like the new UA ranger gets to decide between 2 stat blocks: Beast of the earth or Beast of the air.
Instead of having a dumb panther as your pet, the X Cleric as a loyal rogue. He can use its bonus action to command it to do X, Y, Z, and the rogue automatically move, dodge, hide or dash on its turn. A little like in Dragon's Crown where the rogue is only acting in the background when you command it.

- Then have working rules for retainers, to hire other meat-shields & loot-monkeys for your casters.

how'bout it?

(j/k, just in case)

Could I interest you in a modest proposal for preventing the poor children of fighters & barbarians from being a burden on npcs or their party & gm?....

 

[Chaosmancer]

The problem is that there's still this perception that a level 20 fighter must be capable of beating a player in PvP when that just isn't important. Why should it matter that they can beat an optimized spellcaster if they're usually just fighting regular monsters anyways. Most of the enemies don't actually have these "martial shutdown" spells unless the DM gave them the ability to as they aren't often on their spells known until swapped with something else.

I think the fighter is the best at fighting, just not PC's. They're the best at fighting monsters in any situation, be it during a surprise round, while the monster is flying, etc.

Well... are they though?

What can they do while the monster is flying? Shoot it with a bow? Unless they are a dex fighter that isn't doing great, and unless they are a Battlemaster all they can do is damage it.

A ranger is almost always dex-based, and with ensnaring strike they have a chance to not only shoot the creature, but bring it to the ground. And this is every ranger, not just a subclass.


Monster is dishing out damage who is the best to take it? The Barbarian. Who can also do almost as good damage as the fighter (fighter only pulls ahead after 11, and is only able to keep up if the barbarian isn't using a specfic subclass like zealot or again, if the fighter is a battlemaster)

Single target damage? Paladins and rogues are just as good a lot of the time. If not better some of the time.


Sure, Action surge and 6 or 8 attacks is a lot, but that isn't something they can do more than once or twice.

 

[FrogReaver]

right that is a spell point system you just said not slots.
Slots are I can do a bloody 9th level spell but damn cannot do a first?

Not in 5e. You can always cast a 1st level spell. It’ll just be in a 9th level slot. But it’s magic and the mystical mechanisms of magical casting can never feel wrong because it’s magic.

 

[Garthanos]

Not in 5e. You can always cast a 1st level spell.

Does not matter spells slots from earlier editions were being expressly talked about

 

[Garthanos]

But it’s magic and the mystical mechanisms of magical casting can never feel wrong because it’s magic.

Huge numbers of people thought amnesia felt like nonsense instead of mythology and legend it did feel wrong / silly or some combo, it didnt even match up with the magic described in Vances stories.