Level Up (A5E) The Advanced Fighter

[Garthanos]

Both 1 hour and 8 hours means you have disengaged from the enemy and are under no threat.

Hence why I feel the 1 hour does a poor job at emulating the many things an encounter power does fairly well.

 

[dave2008]

Hence why I feel the 1 hour does a poor job at emulating the many things an encounter power does fairly well.

We use the 5min short rest variant in the DMG

 

[Asisreo]

But how can you be sure that you can rely on your DM?

By knowing your DM. If they were considered unreliable, the game would kinda be hurt regardless of the class you choose.

Would it be better to have features that are meaningful and working well with or without a cooperative DM.

With a cooperative DM. I don't feel comfortable at all isolating the DM from the players abilities since it further emphasises the "Us vs them" problem past editions have. I'd be okay if all spellcasters would have to ask permission if the spell they're casting is possible to cast at the time. And how that spell works.

Isolating the game from the DM usually causes this counter-fest where the DM didn't know your build was so weak/powerful and now they have to adjust encounters on their end to compensate and so-forth while entwinning the DM in the base uses of the abilities allow the DM to properly balance on the spot without targeting a player or messing with houserules and homebrew or asking you to completely scrap the character because of any power difference.

 

[Garthanos]

I think 5e could have went into specifying why immediate reuse is normally not effective for some abilities ... like making this one a trick that reuse on someone who recently seen it is at disadvantage or requiring a 1 minute purification ritual afterwards and the like if its about flavor instead of fatigue

We use the 5min short rest variant in the DMG

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I think with a more conservative list of fighting styles a pretty good capstone would be getting all the fighting styles.

 

[battlebaby]

I think one way to go with fighter is having combat styled focused subclasses as the archetypes: weapon master, archer, gladiator (performance based style), man at arms (many weapons style), gunslinger, etc.

 

[CapnZapp]

Look at Pathfinder 2:

The Fighter's entire schtick is getting +2 to attacks that nobody else can get.

Yes, D&D is about combat, and Paizo has accurately deduced that's all you need to create a compelling Fighter class.

If you hit more often than anybody else, you don't need social or exploratory powers. Being best in combat means being best where it counts, where the overwhelming majority of play time is spent.

Plus - the Fighter can train in Diplomacy or Nature just like anyone else; allowing him to perform nearly as well in another arena of his choosing, again simply because D&D is about combat - while combat is highly regulated, every other challenge is resolved by a simple skill check or the like.

If you look at the Fighter who can do the by far most prominent activity the best, while still being able to perform decently at one more thing, you realize the Fighter isn't given a bad deal at all.

In 3E, yes. But in 5E, martials are needed. In PF2, they're goddamn essential.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Being best in combat means being best where it counts, where the overwhelming majority of play time is spent.

I agree with you on this. A least in the way Basic 5e is designed: combat-centered, no real subsystem for exploration or social rules, a stunted skill list etc. When the game is 90% about combat, the main combat class is indeed okay.

But A5E will at least attempt to balance the pillars. So I think the fighter should have a few features that let him engage with those new systems, beyond just being proficient in a skill. In a game that where each pillar represent 33% of the game, being good at only one of them wont cut it, I fear.

But we'll see when the actual subsystem are released. If they are only minor addition to the game, then fighter might as well stay focused on the combat part.

 

[DND_Reborn]

But A5E will at least attempt to balance the pillars. So I think the fighter should have a few features that let him engage with those new systems, beyond just being proficient in a skill. In a game that where each pillar represent 33% of the game, being good at only one of them wont cut it, I fear.

I agree, but here is a thought:

How are other classes any better at exploration or social?

Sure, some few have class features, but most are a handful of subclass features, really, if any at all. You might claim that magic is the key for casters, but IME a lot of casters don't have many spells really for social or exploration, because they also focus on combat (spells).

I see it more of an issue that other classes can be pretty much as good at fighting as fighters, not that fighters need to be as good at exploration and social as classes designed to be superior in those pillars.

It reminds me of the Noble class in d20 SW. They excelled at other things, and maxed out their BAB at +15, while the Soldier maxed out at +20, so was superior in combat.

In 5E, each class maxes out "attack" bonus at +11, and with scaling cantrips, sneak attacks, smites, etc. many classes can pretty closely match a fighter in DRP (or outright beat it) and be even more effective in combat.

 

[battlebaby]

Look at Pathfinder 2:

The Fighter's entire schtick is getting +2 to attacks that nobody else can get.

That's how I see the fighter. More fun and compeling.

* a flat bonus to attack with weapons that improves at certain levels.

* add proficiency bonus to damage -- as the fighter gain levels your attacks become more deadly.

* add compeling combat styles as archetypes: gunslinger, iaijutsu master, polearm master, etc.

* add core features that reflects the foghter Identify: armor benefits, block attacks, ignore pain, resolve, resist exhaustion, etc.

* keep second wind, but add buff to it: maybe when you use second you can spend HD to gain more hit points.

* higher critical chance: roll a critical is fun.

* maneuvers as baseline for every class, but fighter can use the improved version.

* the fighter should be a able to gain more attacks based on a maneuver, or combat style feature he uses, instead being limited to action surge.

* group utility: extend a core ability to a group member (shot, order, or "as long your froup follo your instructions")