Level Up (A5E) The Advanced Fighter

[Xeviat]

I really like the idea of gaining additional fighting styles. I also like the idea of having a power mechanic in the base class, so that the Subclasses have something to build off of. No other subclass adds quite as much offensive oomph as the Battlemaster or Arcane Archer, whose archetype abilities are balanced much higher than feats.

 

[Asisreo]

To remedy that situation, you would need a "fix".

So your point is... that relying on the DM to do cool things at higher levels is perfectly ok with you.

It's apparently a problem given the amount of push-back it's been given and some people are hoping that Level Up will remedy this problem.

I agree with you that relying on the DM is okay, but I'm sure many people are unsatisfied with such an answer.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I really think I am just wasting everyone's time today - time to go do some yard work!

You never are, dont be mean to yourself .

I just saw Morrus post on the overall results of the survey. I see now what you were saying. I think the book will mostly do what I want, even if its not perfectly aligned with my wishes (I know, how dare they!). Anyway, no biggie: if the base is 85% of what I want, it is still a lot closer than the PHB and I can also homebrew it further.

And truth be told, convincing my players to use a system with more complexity will be an hard sell. My table is probably more interested in a rule-lite d&d (Into the Unknown, 5 Torches Deep, the Black Hack 2, Dungeon World, Beyond the Wall)...but I'm the one buying them games, so I will be deciding what we are playing.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I agree with you that relying on the DM is okay

But how can you be sure that you can rely on your DM? Would it be better to have features that are meaningful and working well with or without a cooperative DM.

For example, in AL, the pick of magic items and access to feat is guaranteed and in the hands of the players. That means that even if you are playing a fighter with a DM that is newer, less willing to use feats or hand out magic items, the fighter is still on par with the rest of the classes. I know you say that the game assumes 100 magic items by the time the group is level 20, but that is A) counting the consumables items B) the published official adventures never come close to the numbers shown in the DMG. And like it or not, Feats are still optional and a DM is well in right to not allow them in his game.

Now, mind you, if A5E adds a lot more feats interacting with the new systems (and assume them to be core to the game) and rules for crafting magic items, the extra ASI of the fighter will be quite valuable and the fighter will be able to create and manage its own equipment, thus maybe a new fighter will not be needed.

We will see.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Ok, some changes:

• Artisan of War and Hero's Reach moved to Fighting styles.
• Extra attack 3 moved to 17 to keep with the cantrip.
• Removed the speed bonus to Action Surge.
• Added 3 new styles building on and boosting Action Surge or Second Wind

• Is 5 Styles enough?
• Still needs a capstone. Ideas?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

That actually isn't my point. I don't believe the base 5e fighter needs any "fixes" at higher levels.

I dont think its matter of fixing its power output. Its more the versatility of the class and its ability to shape the narrative that is lacking. Sure a skilled roleplayer can manage a few good things in therm of setting influence, but every character as access to skills, so its not really a matter of classes.

I agree that in 5e the fighter is mostly fine, but a little bit restricted at higher level. But that in ''basic'' 5e, with more or less no rules for social combat, journey, retainers, stronghold etc.

If A5E is to add those extra systems, the fighter will feel really lacking, because his only options to interact with those systems will the the same skill checks as anybody else. Meanwhile, the Ranger will be rocking the journey rules, the spellcaster will be sprouting fortresses, temples, groves etc left and right, bard will be gathering small armies of retainers with the CHA expertise and mind affecting spells etc.

I dont know if I express my point clearly? In short the fighter is ok with is limited role in a system with little to no breadth or depth, but if you create a new game with a goal of adding more depth to rules, the fighter will be left in the dust by the other classes.

 

[dave2008]

• Still needs a capstone. Ideas?

In don't know if this a good capstone or not, but I have often thought of giving fighters an ability like power word kill. If they hit a creature with 100 HP or less it is dead (or something similar). Recharge on a long rest.

 

[Garthanos]

You never are, dont be mean to yourself .

^^This

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

In don't know if this a good capstone or not, but I have often thought of giving fighters an ability like power word kill. If they hit a creature with 100 HP or less it is dead (or something similar). Recharge on a long rest.

The easiest answer is always the good one! Thanks for that.

Its sad that the ''strength before death'' feature of the samurai is already taken.

I would have given that + your final blow idea to the fighter as a capstone.

Final Blow
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack and it has 100 or less hit points, it dies automatically. You can use this feature once before you need to take a long rest.

Furthermore, once per long rest, if you take damage that reduces you to 0 hit points and doesn't kill you outright, you can use your reaction to delay falling unconscious, and you can immediately take an extra turn, interrupting the current turn. While you have 0 hit points during that extra turn, taking damage causes death saving throw failures as normal, and three death saving throw failures can still kill you. When the extra turn ends, you fall unconscious if you still have 0 hit points.

 

[Garthanos]

For example, in AL, the pick of magic items and access to feat is guaranteed and in the hands of the players. That means that even if you are playing a fighter with a DM that is newer, less willing to use feats or hand out magic items

Gygax once said he assumed fighters would be replete with magic items ... theory is fine but the practice just isn't there. A common but not pervasive DM goal who were designing their own worlds A PROMINENT thing back then was to keep magic items in the background or almost non-existent hence why the inherent bonuses rule from 4e was great as is having so much of a characters interesting abilities inherent not tied to items. Similarly making skills do big things was step one towards working out of combat balance between characters who do not have magic and those who do.