Level Up (A5E) Where to put ability bonuses during character creation

[Undrave]

An orc being stronger than a human is also flavor.

Both a playable Orc and Human can start the game with 17 in their STR and they can both end the game with 20 in STR. The Halfling can also end the game 20, even if it takes one more ASI.

You're really overstating the 'flavor' thing.

Also, what about all the Racial trait that are CLEARLY cultural, would you complain about their removal from the Species level of character creation too? Stuff like weapon proficiencies? It's 'flavor', but it's also nonsense that all member of a race are apparently born with the innate ability to use a longbow.

 

[Derren]

Both a playable Orc and Human can start the game with 17 in their STR and they can both end the game with 20 in STR. The Halfling can also end the game 20, even if it takes one more ASI.

You're really overstating the 'flavor' thing.

Also, what about all the Racial trait that are CLEARLY cultural, would you complain about their removal from the Species level of character creation too? Stuff like weapon proficiencies? It's 'flavor', but it's also nonsense that all member of a race are apparently born with the innate ability to use a longbow.

Thats why I think racial ASI should also influence the maximum value in both directions.

Everything learned, skills, proficencies, etc. should be moved to culture. A race should only affect inborn, biological attributes. That includes vision, size/speed and also ASI.

 

[Undrave]

Thats why I think racial ASI should also influence the maximum value in both directions.

In both direction?

 

[Maxperson]

Both a playable Orc and Human can start the game with 17 in their STR and they can both end the game with 20 in STR. The Halfling can also end the game 20, even if it takes one more ASI.

You're really overstating the 'flavor' thing.

Also, what about all the Racial trait that are CLEARLY cultural, would you complain about their removal from the Species level of character creation too? Stuff like weapon proficiencies? It's 'flavor', but it's also nonsense that all member of a race are apparently born with the innate ability to use a longbow.

The flavor is in the race, not necessarily the PC. If Orcs have a +2 to strength and Halflings no bonus at all, then Orcs as a race will average 2 points higher than halflings. So what if some buff halfling has an 18 and some puny orc has a 9. Racial bonuses are not about the individuals.

That's why I'd like to see the +2 bonus come from race, and a +1 from background, with no more than +2 in any one stat. The PCs as part of the race will have the racial bonus and then they can further modify it via background. Alternatively, +1 from race, +1 from subrace and +1 from background, with no more than +2 in any one stat.

 

[Undrave]

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8067596, member: 23751"

That's why I'd like to see the +2 bonus come from race, and a +1 from background, with no more than +2 in any one stat. The PCs as part of the race will have the racial bonus and then they can further modify it via background. Alternatively, +1 from race, +1 from subrace and +1 from background, with no more than +2 in any one stat.
[/QUOTE]

I can work with that.

 

[Giauz]

I could come up with an ability score bonus for every background in the PHB. I just don't have my book handy... gimme a sec...

Acolyte: Wisdom
Charlatan: Charisma
Criminal: Dexterity or Charisma
Entertainer: Charisma
Folk Hero: Wisdom
Gladiator: Charisma or Strength
Guild Artisan/Merchant: Wisdom
Hermit: Intelligence
Knight: Strength or Intelligence
Noble: Intelligence or Charisma
Outlander: Wisdom or Constitution
Pirate: Strength or Dexterity
Sage: Intelligence
Sailor: Strength or Wisdom
Soldier: Strength or Dexterity
Urchin: Dexterity

There. It's not hard to assign one or more. They already have skills associated with them so you could just pick one of the two attribute associated with the skills.

I was thinking a list of 4 modifier combos per background wIth short descriptions of why each would be. Either pick one or roll a d4. I think that would be fun.

 

[Guest 6801328]

The flavor is in the race, not necessarily the PC. If Orcs have a +2 to strength and Halflings no bonus at all, then Orcs as a race will average 2 points higher than halflings. So what if some buff halfling has an 18 and some puny orc has a 9. Racial bonuses are not about the individuals.

The reason this argument doesn't sway me (YMMV) is that I don't see "averages" at the table, I see individual characters. Even if I just happen to have in my group a halfling with 17 strength, and an orc with 13 strength, I don't conclude that halflings are stronger than orcs are. There are too many other things in the fiction reinforcing the opposite conclusion, including their other racial abilities, and all the Orc NPCs with higher strength than all the halfling NPCs.

I am also not influenced by what I know, or guess, about what's going on in the rest of the gaming world. Even if D&D Beyond had a portal that would let me look at other characters at an attribute level, and I could look at distributions of attributes by race, those numbers would have zero impact on how I perceive the races. Even if it turns out that halflings had, on average, higher strength than orcs. The choices of other players simply don't impact my perception of the races.

Again, I realize that these things are important to you, and I'm not saying either of us has the moral or logical high ground. Just that we see it differently.

 

[Derren]

In both direction?

Some playable monsters have a penalty and I personally like the idea of ability penalties, but thats a different discussion.

The flavor is in the race, not necessarily the PC. If Orcs have a +2 to strength and Halflings no bonus at all, then Orcs as a race will average 2 points higher than halflings. So what if some buff halfling has an 18 and some puny orc has a 9. Racial bonuses are not about the individuals.

That's why I'd like to see the +2 bonus come from race, and a +1 from background, with no more than +2 in any one stat. The PCs as part of the race will have the racial bonus and then they can further modify it via background. Alternatively, +1 from race, +1 from subrace and +1 from background, with no more than +2 in any one stat.

I too can agree to that.
Sure, among heroes or even specialized NPCs some of a weak race can surpass the average of a strong race. But a hero or specialized NPC of the strong race would again have an advantage.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I can work with that.

At that point, why not just choose 3 points of ASI from the Ability scores noted by your race, culture, background, and class? A semi-floating ASI, as it were.

 

[Giauz]

@Elfcrusher : I was not talking about being biased toward any particular background. What I was trying to say is that I believe backgrounds are really cool, so I voted for that option in the above poll. Also, having say 4 options to choose from or selectable with a d4 (some overlapping, but that's okay) in background with short descriptions next to why each option might be the case I think would add a lot of depth to character customization.

Lastly, if statwise many ancestry + culture combos just resulted in "roughly humanoid", that would be okay. Still, I think having some combos of ancestry + culture should give bonuses to abilities to keep some interesting mechanics in the stats of that sphere of a PC's makeup. That may cause some imballance/minmaxing, but I feel character creation variability and customization would be stronger for it. What do you think?