Level Up (A5E) Multiclassing for 5E-Level up (dual-class)

[Horwath]

5e multiclassing doesn’t work well because classes don’t level nearly uniformly per level. You get big boosts some levels and trivial boosts others. There’s little synergy between most classes abilities. Etc.

that is why even split between classes is most balanced solution as it prevents higher level dipping into front loaded classes.
Problem is that even split is always worse than single class above 5th level.

 

[FrogReaver]

that is why even split between classes is most balanced solution as it prevents higher level dipping into front loaded classes.
Problem is that even split is always worse than single class above 5th level.

Classes aren’t front loaded though. It’s just some class abilities add a trivial amount of power at specific levels such that a fiRest level classes abilities can add more. That’s not a front loading problem. It’s a weak ability on level up problem.

 

[glass]

@Horwath Fair points, all.
Perhaps "more powerful" shouldn't be the goal of multiclassing? Versatility has its merits, as does storytelling potential.

Being able to do lots of different things, but none of them well enough to be actually at the level you are playing at, is not actually versatility. It is just a really complicated way to be useless.

_
glass.

 

[CapnZapp]

First fix the front-loading and the empty upper levels.

Before doing that, there really isn't much to discuss re: multiclassing IMO

 

[FrogReaver]

First fix the front-loading and the empty upper levels.

Before doing that, there really isn't much to discuss re: multiclassing IMO

I don’t find classes to be front loaded. The bigger problem is so many empty levels that Barely give you any extra power. It makes them feel front loaded but the issue is really the empty levels.

 

[CapnZapp]

Classes aren’t front loaded though. It’s just some class abilities add a trivial amount of power at specific levels such that a fiRest level classes abilities can add more. That’s not a front loading problem. It’s a weak ability on level up problem.

I don’t find classes to be front loaded. The bigger problem is so many empty levels that Barely give you any extra power. It makes them feel front loaded but the issue is really the empty levels.

Now you're just mincing words.

I happen to think it is useful to use both terms. Classes ARE front-loaded and they HAVE empty levels.

That's why I suggest the plans for epic/immortal levels are scrapped, and the ideas instead used to fill up those high-level empty levels (and most of the existing ones moved down into mid-level).

That compatibility with existing high-level content is reduced should not be considered a big problem. There is so little of it, and the existing support for levels 16-20 is so weak, that it makes much more sense to claim "Level Up is compatible with 5E up until around level ~13", meaning probably 90-95% of all 5E content, then offering a much more compelling play experience.

 

[Charlaquin]

I’d like to see a return to 4e Feat-based multiclassing. But for that to work you’d probably need more Feats.

 

[Horwath]

I’d like to see a return to 4e Feat-based multiclassing. But for that to work you’d probably need more Feats.

IMHO, that was the worst MC idea.
spend a feat to lose a power to gain power.
something that should have been automatic costs a feat.

 

[CleverNickName]

IMHO, that was the worst MC idea.
spend a feat to lose a power to gain power.
something that should have been automatic costs a feat.

As long as power gained = power lost, this wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Gradine]

4e multi-classing was great in theory and dreadful in practice, mostly because of how nobody is allowed to be sufficiently MAD in 4e without falling way behind the power curve. I learned this the hard way with my Taclord-stroke-Wizard

Removing 5e multi-classing altogether (and please, for the love of all that is good and holy, never coming close again to how AD&D decided to handle it) and replacing it with 5e-style feats is a mighty fine way of representing multi-classing, without setting anybody too far ahead or too far behind the power curve due to their choices.