Level Up (A5E) Combat Maneuver and Traditions from multiclassing

[Anonymous3]

Check my quote above... The only passage with a reference that adds all the class levels only refers to the highest degree and no other features.

I was in the process of responding to your original post but had to step away. But, yes I now understand that you were trying to be clear on degrees specifically which I missed because I was trying to solve the "whole problem". Degrees are not additive (just read from the read from a table with the highest access). I appreciate your effort to help me.

If you take a level of "other" class you still get the maneuvers (number and max degree) from the best class plus the other features the "other" class gives you?

Yes, that is how I read it.

 

[Anonymous3]

For Multiclassing, combat maneuver degree is the primary advantage of Multiclassing.
In your example fighter has the better maneuver degree progression, so at level 6 you would have access to 2nd degree maneuvers.

Most other features are gained as per the class progression you gain a level in.
-You get 1 exertion pool, but bonus exertion generally stacks

• you gain access to traditions learned from both classes, plus any additional traditions from other sources like subclasses
• you get maneuvers know as you take a level in a class as per the level in that class, this can make maneuvers known progression a little wonky and can make it important as to when you take levels in a class.

Per your example if you take
2 levels in berserker first you would know 2x1st degree maneuvers,

At level 3 (2 berserker/1 fighter) you would learn 3 additional 1st degree maneuvers
Total 5 x 1st degree maneuvers

At level 4 (2 berserker/2 fighter) your maximum degree known would be 2nd and you would gain 1 x 2nd degree maneuver
Total
5 x 1st degree maneuvers
1 x 2nd degree maneuvers

At level 5 (2 berserker/3 fighter) nothing is gained
Total
5 x 1st degree maneuvers
1 x 2nd degree maneuvers

At level 6 (2 berserker/4 fighter) you learn an additional 2nd degree maneuver
Total
5 x 1st degree maneuvers
2 x 2nd degree maneuvers


I hope this clears up any confusion

Thank you. I was trying to find a simpler way of explaining this without doing it on a level by level basis. Your explanation is clear

 

[lichmaster]

I agree that they stack but how they stack is where I am stuck. The MC rules indicate that you use the class with the highest access to Combat Maneuvers features. For me, this means all of them (CMs, traditions and degrees). The wording describes exceptions to these rules where necessary.

This is what's written under the Multiclassing section:

If you gain the Combat Maneuvers class feature from more than one class, you gain any additional combat traditions or maneuvers the features provide but your exertion pool remains the same and does not stack.

You use your class levels in every class that grants combat maneuvers to determine the highest degree of combat maneuvers you can learn, determined by the class with the greatest access.

That's it. You stack what makes sense to stack (numbers of traditions and maneuvers known), and you don't stack stuff that would multiclassing too powerful (exertion pool and max maneuver level)

 

[Steampunkette]

I'm confused as to where the problem is...

A Berserker 2/Fighter 4 has 7 maneuvers. At Fighter 6 the Fighter has 7 maneuvers.

Berserker 6/Fighter 4 has 9 maneuvers. At Fighter 10 they know 10 maneuvers.

Berserker 16/Fighter 4 has 14 maneuvers. At Fighter 20 they know 17 maneuvers.

The Fighter will also have 4 extra Exertion by level 20. The Fightzerker will get 1 extra exertion at Fighter 4.

Because the Berserker gets 0 maneuvers at level 1 and a lower progression if you splash Fighter you'll get more total maneuvers known than a straight Berserker, but not as many as a straight Fighter. And you'll also get a couple extra traditions known, like a Sorcerer/Cleric getting a wider variety of spells overall.

... isn't that how multiclassing is supposed to work?

 

[Anonymous3]

The problem was sitting behind my keyboard . We covered that a few posts up.

 

[Anonymous3]

Since we are on the topic.

Whenever you learn a new maneuver, you can choose one of the maneuvers you know and replace it with another maneuver of the same degree or lower.

Does this mean there are "dead" levels for swapping out CMs? My read is "Yes" but that makes me sad.

 

[Verall]

The other significant advantage is that you can easily double the number of known traditions with a single level dip, and this can give a lot of flexibility. Whether this is useful it's hard to tell.
But any 1/1 character with two martial classes will know 4 traditions, while no 2nd level character of a single class would. This almost feels like an oversight.

That is true, i wanted to focus on

Since we are on the topic.

Does this mean there are "dead" levels for swapping out CMs? My read is "Yes" but that makes me sad.
View attachment 381727

yes, which can make it very important as to when you take a level in a class, you may find yourself in a position where you can a new maneuver degree but no new manuevers essentially pushing that gain back a level.

 

[lichmaster]

Since we are on the topic.

Does this mean there are "dead" levels for swapping out CMs? My read is "Yes" but that makes me sad.
View attachment 381727

RAW yes. But personally I'd allow retraining with both downtime and with any level up (one maneuver only), not just when you learn a new one.
Realizing that a maneuver you chose didn't work as well as you hoped already sucks enough, having to wait 2 or more levels to change it is even worse

 

[Steampunkette]

The problem was sitting behind my keyboard . We covered that a few posts up.

... I really need to stop communicating right when I wake up...

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to belabor the point or dogpile on you!

 

[Anonymous3]

Don't sweat it. I took it all in good faith.