Level Up (A5E) Do Player Characters Have Average Population Stat Distributions?

[tetrasodium]

That's fine, I just would object to the idea that the background description of an area would trickle up into game rules; such that characters from eastern Karrnath make better clerics than characters from western Karrnath. If the player doesn't know a lot about a prepublished setting, we work out a good backstory that ties into the setting in session 0.

In this case it was literally because I just did one example for each stat & looked at the map coming up with reasons that might improve a stat till I had one for each stat to make an example. If a player asked me why that was I could think of a bunch of reasons why that might be the case & would be happy to work out something with them using those or maybe even something else that fits the setting but we are really getting off track.
@Phoebasss "Most players would just take the +2cha one for a primary charisma based class or ask the gm if they could work something out ". there are any number of reasons why a GM might want to link a particular culture with a particular attribute but a player working out something with the GM tends to be happy to work with the gmin exchange as a few people have pointed out how the player who wanted a particular culture/attrib combo could attempt.

@TwoSix a 15 becomes a 16 when you take a half feat that gives +1 to that stat, I've seen a lot of players start with a 15 intending to even it at 4

 

[Guest 6801328]

That's fine, I just would object to the idea that the background description of an area would trickle up into game rules; such that characters from eastern Karrnath make better clerics than characters from western Karrnath. If the player doesn't know a lot about a prepublished setting, we work out a good backstory that ties into the setting in session 0.

All the people who think NPCs and PCs are really the same thing probably play this out such that Karnath's population is mostly clerics, whereas the fishing village is all rogues, etc. Because, you know, NPCs would do exactly what PCs would do.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And non-ASI racials (Fey Ancestry, Halfling Luck, etc) don't achieve that for you?



Eh. Conjecture. I disagree, but neither of us has any data to back up our opinions.

Non-ASI radials do work for me, but I don't want ASIs axed. And floating ASIs don't work for me, so they have to be connected to something. I choose culture.

 

[TwoSix]

All the people who think NPCs and PCs are really the same thing probably play this out such that Karnath's population is mostly clerics, whereas the fishing village is all rogues, etc. Because, you know, NPCs would do exactly what PCs would do.

NPCs do everything PCs do, except backwards and in high heels.

 

[Lanefan]

PS. As for that last question, I would answer "it's all about levels". The difference between a Halfling hero and a Orc hero should only be relevant between two heroes of the same level. As soon as the Halfling has a couple of levels on the Orc, she should be able to whoop his ass, including wrestling him down. As for exactly how many (or how few) levels, that touches upon the greater question of whether to use "bounded accuracy" or "adding level to proficiency", to use the terminology (and approach) of 5e and PF2 respectively.

You're after way too steep a power curve if you want just "a couple of levels" difference meaning the higher-level will always whoop the lower-level's ass.

A couple of levels should tilt the odds some sure, but by no means make the outcome guaranteed.

 

[Maxperson]

+1 is four levels of growth for non-fighters. And considering most games don't go past level 9, that's pretty significant.

That might color my thinking. The games I run and play in don't stop before 15th and usually end up 18-20. The +1 just doesn't matter much to me.

 

[Phoebasss]

@Phoebasss "Most players would just take the +2cha one for a primary charisma based class or ask the gm if they could work something out ". there are any number of reasons why a GM might want to link a particular culture with a particular attribute but a player working out something with the GM tends to be happy to work with the gm in exchange as a few people have pointed out how the player who wanted a particular culture/attrib combo could attempt.

Right, we could homebrew a solution to a problem we are creating, but we don't have to homebrew our way around things when we're discussing how we can make the system work better in the first place. And I think we should try to design so that there's less constraints on combinations of choices. Choosing a class shouldn't narrow race and lead to a domino effect which narrows culture which in turn narrows background. That kind of system leads to a bunch of hidden complexity that only serves to hurt abnormal builds.

I don't think linking an ASI to culture implies anything we can't imply with a better, more interesting feature. It's just locking a +1 bonus behind a door labeled "illusion of choice". Linking a Roleplay talent or feature akin to the Folk Hero's Rustic Hospitality or the Charlatan's False Identity encourages people to interact more with their culture in a way that is interesting and encourages the kinds of play I think we both want to see at the table without basically winding up with the problem of race/class combos but with one of the words swapped out.

 

[Phoebasss]

That might color my thinking. The games I run and play in don't stop before 15th and usually end up 18-20. The +1 just doesn't matter much to me.

Yeah, once you hit level 12, the +1 stops mattering so much, because you cap out and even up with anyone else of your class.

 

[TwoSix]

@TwoSix a 15 becomes a 16 when you take a half feat that gives +1 to that stat, I've seen a lot of players start with a 15 intending to even it at 4

And a 17 would become an 18 with that same feat. I've done that with elf characters and Elven Accuracy multiple times.

 

[Lanefan]

I was talking about a level 1 PC with no magic items. PCs start as freaks. They start with a 15 as a roll. This is something normal NPCs and even elite NPCs don't get. They don't even start with 15s at HD 1.

If they can't by RAW, that's a serious RAW problem that needs fixing posthaste.

NPC Human commoners (the standard baseline) should have exactly whatever the mathematical chance is of having a 15 as the 3d6 bell curve allows.

If those odds of a commoner having a 15 are too high then use a tighter bell-curve with the same extremes.