Level Up (A5E) Monk Buff Suggestion

[Undrave]

Three very simple suggestion to make the Monk run more smoothly:

1- Make Unarmored Defense be (your choice of) DEX+Proficiency Bonus or WIS+Proficiency Bonus instead of DEX+WIS.

2- Make Patient Defense not cost any Ki.

3- Don't have them lose EVERYTHING if they wear armor or a shield.

Only other easy thing I could see in the base class is to give it a bit more Ki points.

 

[DND_Reborn]

#1. We house-ruled Unarmored Defense = 10 + proficiency bonus + (DEX or WIS, your choice) modifier already so I totally agree with that.

#2. Might be too powerful. I mean, you are still using your bonus action, but the Dodge action not only imposes disadvantage on attacks made against you (effectively about a +4 or so to your AC!) but also gives you advantage on DEX saves (something IME many people seem to overlook).

#3. What do they lose? Honestly, we've never had a monk put on armor or grab a shield... so off-hand I don't know what is lost LOL (other than Unarmored Defense, of course...).

 

[Stalker0]

#3. What do they lose? Honestly, we've never had a monk put on armor or grab a shield... so off-hand I don't know what is lost LOL (other than Unarmored Defense, of course...).

their speed and martial arts, it’s pretty nasty actually it completely ruins your offense

 

[Phoebasss]

With these changes it might be worth creating/modifying the subclasses to have more use for wisdom. That way you're still encouraged to have some amount of wisdom, rather than making monk another full dex class. I feel that part of monk's identity is in being a class that needs both of those stats, and the change to unarmored defense removes any need for wisdom. I could be wrong though and it could be a good thing to open monk up to just being "the unarmed class" rather than having a more focused flavor.

 

[Zaukrie]

Monk, imo, should have two flavors.....the monk (whatever that means) and unarmed fighter (none of the trappings of the monk, as it were). I played a monk that was just an unarmed fighter that grew up in a nation that didn't allow commoners to own or use weapons. So, he learned to fight with farm tools and his body. There should be space for that, imo.......but I don't know what the powers should be at that point.

 

[Asisreo]

Three very simple suggestion to make the Monk run more smoothly:

1- Make Unarmored Defense be (your choice of) DEX+Proficiency Bonus or WIS+Proficiency Bonus instead of DEX+WIS.

It would probably be more of a nerf than a bonus especially at lower levels and doesn't get all that better.

1st level: AC would most likely be 10+2+3=15 rather than 10+3+3=16 if standard array is used. By 4th level, the increase can be roughly 17 AC while it takes getting to level 5 to equal that. By 12th-level, the regular monk should already be AC 20 while this monk is waiting for level 13. Not until 17th level where the AC is beyond AC 20. It being a maximum AC 21.

2- Make Patient Defense not cost any Ki.

As I understand it, the hang-up on patient defense is less the Ki cost and more the action economy. You're trading offense for defense. Even if it costs nothing, to people that need to see big damage, it will just be pushed to the side.

For people like me, it's probably too good. Dodge is the best buff in the game, period. Giving anyone the ability to do it is already quite good (which is why quicken on sorcerer is also really good, especially for their lower AC). It may not feel all that satisfying to some players. But if I had my hands on this monk, I'd always patient defense no matter what.

3- Don't have them lose EVERYTHING if they wear armor or a shield.

I can agree here. It seems to be more of a product of flavor than actual balance.

 

[Phoebasss]

Monk, imo, should have two flavors.....the monk (whatever that means) and unarmed fighter (none of the trappings of the monk, as it were). I played a monk that was just an unarmed fighter that grew up in a nation that didn't allow commoners to own or use weapons. So, he learned to fight with farm tools and his body. There should be space for that, imo.......but I don't know what the powers should be at that point.

I think this might speak to the slightly bigger problem that there isn't an archetype for unarmed fighter. This archetype should be under fighter, probably as a fighting style.

 

[Stalker0]

1)

Three very simple suggestion to make the Monk run more smoothly:

1- Make Unarmored Defense be (your choice of) DEX+Proficiency Bonus or WIS+Proficiency Bonus instead of DEX+WIS.

2- Make Patient Defense not cost any Ki.

3- Don't have them lose EVERYTHING if they wear armor or a shield.

Only other easy thing I could see in the base class is to give it a bit more Ki points.

1) i would go with 11 + prof + dex or wis. That will give you the expected scaling (people keep looking at 16 dex 16 wis monks as the norm, so we want to keep that baseline).


Ive also considered the following:

10 + dex (or str) + wis. str is the old “iron shirt” technique, and would allow for the grappling monk archetype more easily.

2) this certainly one way to go about it. Another is to also allow patient defense to trigger off a reaction to an attack roll or reflex save.

that way when you spend ki for it, you know your getting some benefit for it.

a third option for people that want the ability to be more “active”, you can add this in.

“You may use athletics to make a trip or grapple attempt against an opponent who misses you while using patient defense”.

3) completely agree. Simple remove the armor restriction from speed and martial arts. I can understand the shield at least, but there is no reason a monk can’t be cool in armor if they sacrifice the feat or multiclasa for it...it’s silly.

 

[Undrave]

#1. We house-ruled Unarmored Defense = 10 + proficiency bonus + (DEX or WIS, your choice) modifier already so I totally agree with that.

#2. Might be too powerful. I mean, you are still using your bonus action, but the Dodge action not only imposes disadvantage on attacks made against you (effectively about a +4 or so to your AC!) but also gives you advantage on DEX saves (something IME many people seem to overlook).

#3. What do they lose? Honestly, we've never had a monk put on armor or grab a shield... so off-hand I don't know what is lost LOL (other than Unarmored Defense, of course...).

For #2 we could always have it cost ki, but be some sort of defensive state that you could maintain for free on subsequent turn as long as you spend your bonus action? Same thing for Flurry of Blows and Step of the Wind. You 'trigger' the state by spending 2 Ki points, and then as long as you use your bonus action to use the action over and over it keeps going. The moment you do something else with your Bonus action you need to pay again. For Step of the Wind I'd add the caveat that you must move at least 15 feet to keep it going.

As for #3:

They lose EVERYTHING they get from Martial Arts: Attacking with DEX instead of STR, damage to unarmed attack, and the bonus action punch they get. Then they lose the speed bonus too.

With these changes it might be worth creating/modifying the subclasses to have more use for wisdom. That way you're still encouraged to have some amount of wisdom, rather than making monk another full dex class. I feel that part of monk's identity is in being a class that needs both of those stats, and the change to unarmored defense removes any need for wisdom. I could be wrong though and it could be a good thing to open monk up to just being "the unarmed class" rather than having a more focused flavor.

I agree to that. The goal would be to make your more flexible in terms of secondary ability, but you would still get benefits from good Wisdom, such as anything that requires a save.

Maybe extra Ki equal to your WIS?

 

[Phoebasss]

Maybe extra Ki equal to your WIS?

God knows they need extra ki.