Level Up (A5E) Rests & Level Up

[Phoebasss]

I'm gonna post it here for consistency and because this is the thread more properly about this question. I'm in favor of going all the way on A and having per-n-encounter rests with no interruption. It is then up to the DM to make that work narratively, or if there is no way to do that in the moment, move the long rest back or forward at most 1 encounter. So long as we have different rest types, they need to be more evenly split than the very common situation of 1 short rest a day, 1 long rest at night. Because that's not what 5e is balanced around and it makes any class with short rest abilities much worse off than their long rest counterparts.

 

[aco175]

Short rests and long rests are the difference between encounter and daily powers.

In a way they are. The big thing was that they were balanced between each class so everyone had the same amount. There was less short rest vs. long rest classes

 

[Phoebasss]

The rest system works fine.

An hour to eat some food, bind wounds and study magic items is a perfectly reasonable option. Taking an hour out in a room with guardable exits isn’t unreasonable and none of the DMs I play with would punish people for doing so. Short rests take healing responsibility off long rests and specifically intended to be fitted between encounters.

Long rests are one of the key mechanisms balancing casters and martials. There are already controls on the 5 min working day - the fact that it can only be done once every 24 hours. Now if players like to wait in a room for 23 1/2 hours then there is a group problem not a game problem...

... either the DM is making the game so difficult the players feel like they need to nova every encounter. Or the PCs expect every encounter to be at max power and be a cake walk. Either way a conversation needs to be had to correct their. Changing the testing system isn’t the solution.

Short rests don't actually serve this purpose. If you can take an entire hour sitting somewhere I don't really see what's preventing you from taking 8 or even 24 most of the time. Short rests need to made fast enough that taking more than one a day is reasonable. Also I don't really think its fair to blame gaming groups for doing something the game is pushing them to do. Groups don't want to have 6 encounters a day with 2 short rests before a long rest, 5e combat already takes longer than a lot of other systems. So either the game needs to push players and gms to stick to that with mechanics, or accept that short rest abilities need to be balanced as if they're getting only one more use than a comparable long rest ability.

 

[TheSword]

Short rests don't actually serve this purpose. If you can take an entire hour sitting somewhere I don't really see what's preventing you from taking 8 or even 24 most of the time. Short rests need to made fast enough that taking more than one a day is reasonable. Also I don't really think its fair to blame gaming groups for doing something the game is pushing them to do. Groups don't want to have 6 encounters a day with 2 short rests before a long rest, 5e combat already takes longer than a lot of other systems. So either the game needs to push players and gms to stick to that with mechanics, or accept that short rest abilities need to be balanced as if they're getting only one more use than a comparable long rest ability.

Sorry, you don’t see the difference between one hour and 8 hours? Tell my boss that. He thinks one hour is plenty for a lunch break. I think he would be cheesed off with an hour.

 

[Phoebasss]

Sorry, you don’t see the difference between one hour and 8 hours? Tell my boss that. He thinks one hour is plenty for a lunch break. I think he would be cheesed off with an hour.

Unless you're providing narrative time limits on your players, something 5e never points out is needed for the rest system to work, they are basically identical mechanically.

 

[clearstream]

Sorry, you don’t see the difference between one hour and 8 hours? Tell my boss that. He thinks one hour is plenty for a lunch break. I think he would be cheesed off with an hour.

Amusing, but also off the point! What you said (in your post above) is okay for dungeoneering groups, but in my experience fails horribly for anything beyond that. I think there are alternatives that can work for all.

 

[Phoebasss]

Long rests are one of the key mechanisms balancing casters and martials. There are already controls on the 5 min working day - the fact that it can only be done once every 24 hours. Now if players like to wait in a room for 23 1/2 hours then there is a group problem not a game problem...

As another note, is anyone actually tracking time this way in 5e? I usually just give my players an approximate time of day if they're outside, or something comparable in dungeons when they ask for it. It winds up being almost entirely up to the GM when 23 1/2 hours is up and you can take a new rest. Which, if the GM has said they don't want you resting, you can rest assured she's just gonna hit you with an encounter for trying it anyway. Or I will anyhow.

 

[TheSword]

Unless you're providing narrative time limits on your players, something 5e never points out is needed for the rest system to work, they are basically identical mechanically.

No because one is 8 hours and one is 1 hour.

That’s likes like saying a ritual is mechanically the same as a normal spell because one takes 10 mina and the takes one action.

 

[Phoebasss]

No because one is 8 hours and one is 1 hour.

That’s likes like saying a ritual is mechanically the same as a normal spell because one takes 10 mina and the takes one action.

The distinction there is combat. Outside of combat, there are relatively few mechanical time limits 5e gives you to put on players. C'mon, don't change the scale like you don't see the problem with that. An action is a narrative amount of time, 6 seconds, and a mechanical amount of time, 1 action. Hours don't have the same mechanical backing. There isn't anything that is supposed to happen each hour or anything like that.

 

[Cadence]

I'm gonna post it here for consistency and because this is the thread more properly about this question. I'm in favor of going all the way on A and having per-n-encounter rests with no interruption. It is then up to the DM to make that work narratively, or if there is no way to do that in the moment, move the long rest back or forward at most 1 encounter. So long as we have different rest types, they need to be more evenly split than the very common situation of 1 short rest a day, 1 long rest at night. Because that's not what 5e is balanced around and it makes any class with short rest abilities much worse off than their long rest counterparts.

The thing I hated most about 13th Age was not getting "Daily" powers and a full-heal until a certain number of encounters had happened... regardless of the number of clock hours/days, unless the party takes a "campaign loss". It certainly does what the rules say and balances daily and encounter powers... but nothing made it feel more like just a game and not being part of a story. But I guess having encounter powers already does that to an extent anyway.

On the other hand, one of the things they bring up as a possible "campaign loss" for resting early, is that it gives your enemies time to do more things. That might not matter in a classic disconnected dungeon crawl, but I can see it having a big effect in other adventures. Edit: I don't think I saw that happen enough in pre-4e games!