Level Up (A5E) Improving spells

[Horwath]

One I have thought about but would love others opinions on. I think concentration is so important in the current 5e system (too important imo, but we aren't talking about spell changes here).

Maybe it should get its own line in the spell (Concentration: Yes/No), and definately should be well highlighted in any table. I should be able to always look at a list of spells and quickly see which ones are concentration, as when I watch my players look at lists for new spells, that is there number one check

that is true.

Didn't add it in my suggestion as fireball has no duration.

But it should be in there

 

[Haldrik]

Fireball (fire element damage evocation)

THEMES:		MIND	LIFE	ELEMENT
Tropes:		Prescience (divination, knowledge, sanity, detection, clairsentience, outofbody, teleportation, plane, time, fate)	Aster (astral, summon / control celestial spirits, ideals, symbols, paradigms, archetypes, languages)	Ether​ (ethereal, magic energy, force, force construct, fly, telekinesis)
		Telepathy (morale, courage, memory, charm, dominate, hold, dream, collective dreamscape, virtual reality, illusion)	Nature (shapeshift, wildshape natural organic forms, ooze, plant, beast, humanoid, summon / control nature spirits, fey spirits) Health (regeneration, heal, resurrection, restoration)	Earth Fire Air Water (transmute elemental forms, summon / control elemental spirits, fire-lightning-radiant light, cold-thunder weather, shaping, item creation, bludgeon-pierce-slash, terrains)
		ANTI-MIND (frighten, amnesia, insanity)	ANTI-LIFE (death, necrotic, summon / control shadow spirits, infernal spirits, undead)	ANTI-ELEMENT (void, space, disintegration, acid, darkness)

 

[Zaukrie]

We’re discussing the idea of tags (not calling them tags though). Fireball — arcane, evocation, fire. Lists can be dynamically created in various configurations that way. A firemage archetype can use all spells with the fire tag. Very preliminary thinking.

Big fan. Now, if you could have a stretch goal of an online version/tool......

 

[Zaukrie]

It'd it be cool if spells had options for saving throws, maybe even with different results on success/failure. E.g. you can try to dodge a spell, or you can try to tough it out.

But maybe too...messy...for 5e.

I really like this idea........much like "I take disadvantage on this attack, so I can.....". Not sure what all I'd do here, though the other reply about this is interesting.

 

[Morrus]

Big fan. Now, if you could have a stretch goal of an online version/tool......

See that’s the fundamental flaw with a tags system. You can’t retroactively edit a book. So you can’t add more tags as all the core spells would need re-tagging.

Having an online resource be the definitive list rather than the book itself is a heck of a leap!

 

[Stalker0]

Having an online resource be the definitive list rather than the book itself is a heck of a leap!

Its a very interesting question. So many products in the market (not just RPG but boardgaming and beyond) are trying to find that perfect balance of real world board and digital tool.

I think its a debate well worth having among the Level UP team. Is it finally time to make a book that has a "good but limited" table, with the understanding that the "super table with all of the bells, tags, and whistles" is kept online?

 

[Morrus]

Its a very interesting question. So many products in the market (not just RPG but boardgaming and beyond) are trying to find that perfect balance of real world board and digital tool.

I think its a debate well worth having among the Level UP team. Is it finally time to make a book that has a "good but limited" table, with the understanding that the "super table with all of the bells, tags, and whistles" is kept online?

I agree. It’s worth considering at the very least. That might need a survey.

 

[Horwath]

I agree. It’s worth considering at the very least. That might need a survey.

digital tools are highly flexible if an effort is put into them.

It's better to focus on book layout and ease of rules.

Digital tools can always be updated when new idea comes. With books it's a bit harder

 

[Lanefan]

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I started playing around with this last night after posting, and I found that the format worked better if I put “make a ranged spell attack roll against the target” or “the target must make a [whatever] saving throw” on the Effect: line and use Save: or Hit: for what happens on a failed or successful save or on a successful hit. So, for example:

Burning Hands__________1st level Evocation
As you hold your hands with thumbs touching and fingers spread, a thin sheet of flames shoots forth from your outstretched fingertips.
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: Self (15 ft. cone)
Target: Each creature in the cone.
Effect: Each target must make a Dexterity saving throw. Flammable objects in the cone that aren’t being worn or carried ignite.
Save: A creature takes 3d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 1st.

Close. Switch clauses between Save and Effect, and trim them down, and you've got it. So, your examples would now look like:

Burning Hands__________1st level Evocation
As you hold your hands with thumbs touching and fingers spread, a thin sheet of flames shoots forth from your outstretched fingertips.
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: Self (15 ft. cone)
Target: Each creature in the cone.
Effect: A creature takes 3d6 fire damage. Flammable objects in the cone that aren’t being worn or carried ignite.
Save: Each target must make a Dexterity saving throw. Damage halved for that target if save succeeds.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the effect damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 1st.

Note that I added the word 'effect' into the 'At Higher Levels' line, to avoid confusion as to whether the extra d6 is applied before or after the save. (yes, there's people who would interpret this both ways otherwise!)

Chill Touch______________Necromancy Cantrip
You create a ghostly, skeletal hand to assail a creature with the chill of the grave.
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: 120 feet
Target: One creature within range
Effect: Make a ranged spell attack roll against the target. If it hits, the target takes 1d8 necrotic damage and cannot regain hit points until the start of your next turn. An undead target you hit with this spell has disadvantage on attack rolls against you until the end of your next turn.
Save: none.
At Higher Levels: This spell’s damage increases to 2d8 at 5th level, 3d8 at 11th level, and 4d8 at 17th level.

For consistency, every line should appear in the same order in every block - here there was no 'Save' line, so I added it. Otherwise, my first question as both DM and player would be 'is there a save for this or not?'. I also combined your 'Effect' and 'Hit' lines as they are part of the same thing: what does the spell want to do; and tweaked the wording a bit here and elsewhere.

And yeah, doing this for every single spell would be (and, I speak from experience, is) bloody tedious!

 

[Lanefan]

yes, but in 5E there is no different level spells for different classes. And nor it should be.

Why not? Having the same or similar spells cast by different classes at different levels opens up tons of design space for how classes work, and how to balance them.

A simple example: an Illusionist should be able to cast some staple Illusion spells at lower level (but for the same effect) than a generalist Wizard.