D&D 5E Never Give Them Unlimited Black Powder

Mecheon

Sacabambaspis
A barbaric savage orc tribe won't have alchemists because they are barbaric savages without education, the same way they won't have a chemist or physicist or likely a wizard. I used BARBARIC and SAVAGE for a reason. Alchemy is a civilized thing.
Debatable.

More than likely the orcs would have an alchemist-type who's good at brewing potions and what-not to, y'know, heal folks. They have education for that, stuff that's been passed down from previous knowledge about what stuff is good to use for that

And alchemy being a civilised thing is.... Well, debatable. It certainly did discover stuff, sure, but also involved a whole lot of folks looking at their piss
 

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Aelryinth

Explorer
Oh? You do know that "barbaric" and "savage" humans in the real world had their own alchemists (as this would be part of a shaman/priest's repertoire).
No, a shaman's shtick would be herb lore. That's a huge difference from true alchemy, falling under the healer shtick for the most part.
 

Aelryinth

Explorer
Debatable.

More than likely the orcs would have an alchemist-type who's good at brewing potions and what-not to, y'know, heal folks. They have education for that, stuff that's been passed down from previous knowledge about what stuff is good to use for that

And alchemy being a civilised thing is.... Well, debatable. It certainly did discover stuff, sure, but also involved a whole lot of folks looking at their piss
As I just quoted, that's herblore, which usually falls under the heal skill, not alchemy, which is a whole higher order of business.
 

Aelryinth

Explorer
You certainly missed/ignored a lot of my points, like say having creatures that have equally deadly abilities, resistances/immunities.

But why wouldn't goblins or orcs have alchemy skills or tools (they are not all stupid)? In a setting where gunpowder is common enough that PCs can hoard it, it's going to be fairly common knowledge and if humanoids can't make it, they can trade for or steal it. And any intelligent creature that has contact with cultures that have ready access to gunpowder will know what it does, how it is used, how to react to it, how to defend against it, etc. Even less intelligent animals can change and adapt their behavior in response to encounters with people with gunpowder or other commonly used tactics and tools (as has happened in the real world). Dragons? They don't need gunpowder. Giants? Aside from hill giants, most are pretty savvy. Hydras? Screw 'em—there are going to be monsters that are vulnerable to various tactics (and if they are using these kind of resources on these sort of monsters, they aren't using them against other foes). Undead, many of them are intelligent and/or have resistances/immunities. Many monsters won't even require gunpowder as they already have abilities that are comparable or more deadly. Never mind the fact that as the PCs level up, they are going to fight monsters that are less and less impressed with their keg parties.

Also, monsters don't need to have the same tricks to stay on and even footing of your proposed scenario (that doesn't even accurately reflect the rules for gunpowder and ignores several facets of the rules). D&D monsters have access to abilities that Cyberpunk (or other games that include explosives) don't, so D&D is on a better footing.

You're the DM—you control what they have access to, what monsters and adventures they face, how much downtime and materials they have, etc. If they want to escalate things, then rise to the challenge of providing them with more challenging encounters and throw nastier critters, adjust the amount of XP the get (if an encounter is less challenging, it's worth less experience), etc.. Or you could talk to the players (heresy, I know) and tell them you find it obnoxious. There are so many ways to address the issue.



There are tools and such for making alchemical stuff faster? Like what? And do, as the DM, just let them have access to them? Sure, you can have multiple PCs craft stuff (if multiple PCs actually have proficiency with alchemicst's tools), but they still need access to tools and materials, neither of which are infinite in availability. Are the tools and materials commercially available? If so, in what quantity and at what price. If not, then the PCs will have to go out and find them for themselves (which, in turn, can be its own adventure). As far as skill checks go, you set the DC, failed checks still use up resources, and failure may have consequence given that they are working with a volatile substance (possibly blowing up or catching the lab on fire on a roll that fails by 5 or on a roll of a natural 1). Given that the rules do not specifically cover the crafting of gunpowder or other explosives, there's a lot of room for the DM make rulings on how it works (you may even require a new, separate tool proficiency for creating gunpowder than alchemist's tools). You also control how much downtime that the PCs have—remember, it takes five work weeks to create 1 keg's worth of gunpowder. And what are people in the PC's community thinking about these gunpowder hoarders—authorities might suspect them of plotting treason and have them arrester and their gunpowder stores confiscated or detonated.

There are a ton of ways to handle these scenarios, you just have to learn how to do so and adapt.
The vast majority of monsters are not immune to gunpowder. that's a fact. The vast number by type are also not going to USE gunpowder, unless you're playing a primary-humanoids campaigns. In short, you're now talking about changing the monsters so gunpowder is useless as a fix...

Then suddenly this stuff they jump through hoops being able to make is now available to creatures that live at the level of medieval vikings or Native Americans before the Europeans came. Okie-dokie. Instant civilizing and educational systems, OR, suddenly this hard to make and procure stuff is now being sold to the enemies of the PC's, and all humanity, by unknown parties.

So, these examples aren't selling it to me.

The supplies are, by default, assumed to be available in most larger settlements, and are certainly within the price range of them.
Your restricting that supply is now making house rules. Just be aware you are doing it.

Gunpowder hoarders are far less dangerous then fireball casting wizards walking around the streets, but if you want to be DM Arbitrary about the threat levels, go right ahead.

You need one rank to assist in helping with alchemy in 3e/Pathfinder. NPC's can do most of the work. Referring to 3e rules, higher skill targets for the DC enable you to make more stuff. There are also magical tools that greatly accelerate making alchemical items, as well as that old game breaker, Fabricate.

As Create Wondrous Items is one of the most popular of feats, making your own tools isn't hard, and they pay for themselves VERY quickly. Artificially not letting them is again a DM Fiat ruling.

Alchemist Classes also generally can make alchemical items far quicker than normal people, too. They usually have it baked right into the class.
 
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Mecheon

Sacabambaspis
As I just quoted, that's herblore, which usually falls under the heal skill, not alchemy, which is a whole higher order of business.
It involves brewing and making potions, which 15+ years of Warcraft tells me fits under "alchemy" so, gotta nope on your definition this fits under some 'heal' skill

I think the problem herein is 'alchemy' is a wide definition and your definition is at odds as to what mine is.
 

Aelryinth

Explorer
Brewing potions is brewing potions. It has the same relation to alchemy that crafting magic arms and armor does to making the arms and armor in the first place, but making liquids in a holder is NOT exclusive to alchemy. A cook, brewer, and herbalist could all do the same thing, without any use of alchemy. The definition of alchemy for D&D is that alchemy is quasi-magical, but Potions are magical, period.

Alchemical healing stuff is generally MUCH less effective than potions, which are basically spells in a can.

Without the feat in D&D, alchemists can't make Potions for others. But anyone can make any of the various alchemical products with the right skill check, most of which don't have much to do with herb lore (alchemical fire/frost/lightning, tindertwigs, smoke bombs, thunderstones, etc.).
 


Aelryinth

Explorer
More like the sapper suddenly finding out his uncivilized savages living in wooden walled settlements at best developed deep-footed stone walls overnight, are tossing alchemical fire down on him, are all resistant to fire, and suddenly his mines have a 50% misfire chance that wasn't there before, because the DM didn't like how he took out the walls of the last settlement.
 

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