D&D (2024) Command is the Perfect Encapsulation of Everything I Don't Like About 5.5e

[Lanefan]

Probably 4 if your talking about humanoids.
Same level as dominant beast.
And 1 level before domain person.

4th level for a spell that only lasts one round even on a failed save?

Way too high.

 

[Lanefan]

it’s not that hard, one is a creative use of a well defined spell (eg goodberry in the baking contest), the other is a creative use of a very vaguely defined spell (command)

Figuring out whether that creative application is within the rules and intent of the spell is easier in the first case than in the second. No one would eg argue that you can poison the town well by throwing some goodberries in it, command is much more open ended

I don't think I can poison the town well with a Command spell either.

But, back in the day (and maybe still, I'm not sure) Goodberry had a reverse version - Badberry - which could be used for exactly what you're thinking.

The vagueness isn't an issue, at least to me; and for every time a player will come up with a potential-win-button use for the spell, they'll IME equally often come up with a use for it that does nothing but waste the spell.

 

[Pedantic]

Probably 4 if your talking about humanoids.
Same level as dominant beast.
And 1 level before domain person.

I can sort of see a short combat duration argument that being only 1 round is not a terribly significant nerf, but that still sounds crazy given the 1 minute on Dominate Person or 1 hour on Charm Person.

We've got Crown of Madness at 2nd level which is arguably a better comparison anyway, essentially trading flexibility in the compelled action out for duration.

Regardless, the argument that an open ended Command is a player trying to round up to Dominate or Charm feels a lot more like an argument that the spell should be 2nd or maybe 3rd level, than that there's something inherently wrong with the effect.

 

[Vaalingrade]

4th level for a spell that only lasts one round even on a failed save?

Yeah, but one where apparently you can point at someone's shield and say 'swallow' and they choke to death so...

 

[mellored]

4th level for a spell that only lasts one round even on a failed save?

Way too high.

Getting an enemy wizard to cast their highest level spells at an ally is huge.

If you put limits on their actions, then it can go lower.

 

[mamba]

The vagueness isn't an issue, at least to me

it does not have to be, I was just clarifying where that line is in @Hussar 's posts that you were missing

 

[Daztur]

Yeah, but one where apparently you can point at someone's shield and say 'swallow' and they choke to death so...

Perhaps it would be a good idea to respond to what people are actually saying? Just a thought.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to respond to what people are actually saying? Just a thought.

Like how I quoted him?

I made reference to the fact that duration isn't the issue?

Perhaps it would be good to have something to actually call someone out on before taking a swing? Just a thought.

 

[Lanefan]

Getting an enemy wizard to cast their highest level spells at an ally is huge.

If you put limits on their actions, then it can go lower.

Dominate doesn't give you immediate and complete knowledge of what the dominated person can do, does it? As in, what spells he-she has or whether he-she can cast spells at all (unless you've already seen said person cast a spell, of course).

I mean, the way I see Dominate Person is that among the first things you-as-dominator have to do is have a chat with the target during which the target tells you everything it can do (which is kind of moot - and makes the spell pointless IMO - if the duration is now only 1 minute; I'd prefer somehting more like the HP Imperius curse, much slower-boiling but also much longer-lasting)

So sure, you can tell your one-round-dominated target to cast its most damaging spell at an ally...and all the dominated target has to do is decide to cast it as a ritual and poof - your dominate has ended ages before the spell resolves; and when it does resolve (if the caster can't self-interrupt) the caster just puts the effect into some random nearby tree.

 

[Lanefan]

Yeah, but one where apparently you can point at someone's shield and say 'swallow' and they choke to death so...

Not sure I've seen that example come up before, and also far from sure it would work; if for no other reason than a shield won't fit in someone's mouth. The best you could hope for is the target spends a round doing the stereotypical Berserker thing of chewing on a shield (which would be kinda cool, come to think of it).