Allegory VS Interpretation

[Ryujin]

On the RPG front, World of Darkness had a pretty robust following in the LGBTQ+ community. Look what happened to them, when they published material that alienated a part of their supporting community.

 

[BookTenTiger]

So you're suggesting that authors have the responsibility to make sure that what they write won't offend anyone? Not only is that impossible, but it doesn't seem necessary.

Authors, like all human beings, have a responsibility to not intentionally cause harm to others.

 

[Mercurius]

Authors, like all human beings, have a responsibility to not intentionally cause harm to others.

Can you give me an example of an author who you think intentionally tried to cause harm to others, and also what you think the consequences should be?

 

[Zardnaar]

Can you give me an example of an author who you think intentionally tried to cause harm to others, and also what you think the consequences should be?

There was this book called Mein Kampf. Some idiot wrote it.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Can you give me an example of an author who you think intentionally tried to cause harm to others, and also what you think the consequences should be?

Many American authors purposefully depicted non-straight, white, male characters as less intelligent, driven, or worthy than the white protagonists. Or they just put racist, homophobic, or sexist opinions in their books, and not just as the opinions of their characters. I mean you have the absolute classic racism and xenophobia of HP Lovecraft.

Another good example of this is Road Dahl. He was an outspoken anti-Semite. He literally said, "I am anti-Semitic" in interviews. It doesn't need to be interpreted from his work. You have a work like The Witches, in which the characters uncover a secret coven of powerful people working behind the scenes of society, revealed to be hook-nosed, bald beneath their wigs, and have animal-like claws. These are ways that people with anti-Semitic viewpoints have characterized Jewish people for hundreds of years.

Should we ban Road Dahl from being read? No, he's a wonderful storyteller. However, his work should be read and shared with the knowledge that it carries an anti-Semitic view of the world. We should understand that the author was flawed, and had a flawed view, and that should be part of the discussion of his works. And modern authors, when writing fantasy, should learn from this lesson and be careful to not depict their evil characters through the same dog-whistles that racists, sexists, and homophobes have done for hundreds of years.

 

[Zardnaar]

Many American authors purposefully depicted non-straight, white, male characters as less intelligent, driven, or worthy than the white protagonists. Or they just put racist, homophobic, or sexist opinions in their books, and not just as the opinions of their characters. I mean you have the absolute classic racism and xenophobia of HP Lovecraft.

Another good example of this is Road Dahl. He was an outspoken anti-Semite. He literally said, "I am anti-Semitic" in interviews. It doesn't need to be interpreted from his work. You have a work like The Witches, in which the characters uncover a secret coven of powerful people working behind the scenes of society, revealed to be hook-nosed, bald beneath their wigs, and have animal-like claws. These are ways that people with anti-Semitic viewpoints have characterized Jewish people for hundreds of years.

Should we ban Road Dahl from being read? No, he's a wonderful storyteller. However, his work should be read and shared with the knowledge that it carries an anti-Semitic view of the world. We should understand that the author was flawed, and had a flawed view, and that should be part of the discussion of his works. And modern authors, when writing fantasy, should learn from this lesson and be careful to not depict their evil characters through the same dog-whistles that racists, sexists, and homophobes have done for hundreds of years.

Never really made those connections as a kid. Never really liked his books but we had them read to us at school as a kid.

Didn't even know what anti semite was until age 13 or so.

I was allowed to read adult material as a kid though so kind of skipped the typical reading curriculum.

It's not a connection most kids would make I think.

I want to read this. Has anyone read it?

10 Books That Screwed Up the World: And 5 Others That Didn't Help: Benjamin Wiker: 9781400157914: Amazon.com: Books

 

[BookTenTiger]

Never really made those connections as a kid. Never really liked his books but we had them read to us at school as a kid.

Didn't even know what anti semite was until age 13 or so.

I was allowed to read adult material as a kid though so kind of skipped the typical reading curriculum.

It's not a connection most kids would make I think.

I want to read this. Has anyone read it?

10 Books That Screwed Up the World: And 5 Others That Didn't Help: Benjamin Wiker: 9781400157914: Amazon.com: Books

Again I'm not saying we shouldn't read his works. He is possibly the most sympathetic author to the absolute misery that can be a kid's life. But when teachers then teach about racism and discrimination, we should also point out the harmful stereotypes in his work.

I mean, people using their art to intentionally harm others should not be a surprise. Rise of a Nation was America's first blockbuster, and it was literally made to promote the KKK and their racist viewpoint. That is literally intentionally harmful.

 

[Zardnaar]

Again I'm not saying we shouldn't read his works. He is possibly the most sympathetic author to the absolute misery that can be a kid's life. But when teachers then teach about racism and discrimination, we should also point out the harmful stereotypes in his work.

I mean, people using their art to intentionally harm others should not be a surprise. Rise of a Nation was America's first blockbuster, and it was literally made to promote the KKK and their racist viewpoint. That is literally intentionally harmful.

Birth of a Nation is fairly low down on my list of things to do.

If I ever watch it it will be from morbid curiosity basically how bad is it.

I'm not a big fan of being told you can't watch it though.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Birth of a Nation is fairly low down on my list of things to do.

If I ever watch it it will be from morbid curiosity basically how bad is it.

I'm not a big fan of being told you can't watch it though.

Of course you should be able to watch it. But you should be armed with the knowledge that it is art with the purpose of promoting white supremacy, right?

Thinking about modern day works, if an author or director or an artist were trying to create a work that was as intentionally harmful as Birth of a Nation, don't you think it's the responsibility of editors and producers and, oh I don't know, sensitivity readers to tell them "Hey this is pretty harmful stuff"?

 

[Zardnaar]

Of course you should be able to watch it. But you should be armed with the knowledge that it is art with the purpose of promoting white supremacy, right?

Thinking about modern day works, if an author or director or an artist were trying to create a work that was as intentionally harmful as Birth of a Nation, don't you think it's the responsibility of editors and producers and, oh I don't know, sensitivity readers to tell them "Hey this is pretty harmful stuff"?

If anyone was that ideologically driven to make it these days I don't think they would bother consulting anyone.

The Deutschland Uber Alles wehraboos tyoes might eat it up.