D&D 5E Jeremy Crawford Discusses Details on Custom Origins

[jasper]

They can't please everyone. They might as well please the group likely to spend the most money over the next 5-10 years.

Psst. Hit persons. He knows Wotc evil plan. Kill them.

 

[Helldritch]

So your position is "no substitutions allowed for any reason." Got it.

You obviously did not fully read thread. I would allow the +1 to be floating. But, in doing so, I would remove the subraces.
That said...
We did made some elves non elves in the past (even pre 5ed, back in the 80's). Raised by humans, gnomes and whatever. But these were exceptions. They were not the norm. When the exception is no longer an exception, it loses a lot of its appeal.

 

[Remathilis]

You obviously did not fully read thread. I would allow the +1 to be floating. But, in doing so, I would remove the subraces.
That said...
We did made some elves non elves in the past (even pre 5ed, back in the 80's). Raised by humans, gnomes and whatever. But these were exceptions. They were not the norm. When the exception is no longer an exception, it loses a lot of its appeal.

I would have accepted fixed +2 /float +1 and remove the asi from subraces. I also have no problem with the proficiency and language swaps. But I'm accepting of what we got and I don't think the game will die from it. It already can handle 20th level dwarven sorcerers with 20 Charisma, it can handle this.

 

[jasper]

Sorry if that was a poor choice of wording, it was not my intent to whistle, dog or otherwise.

You do know how to whistle. (Bat eyes Bat Eyes) Just Pucker up and blow.....
OH MY GAWD. NOT THAT END. GAS GAS GAS.

 

[Maxperson]

You are contradicting your own point. Narrowing it down to one example:

Fact: the racial traits (per the PHB) of a given race are universal to all members of the race. We'll accept this as given.
Fact: the hobgoblin PC race and MM entry have contradictory ability scores being modified (Str/Dex/Con vs Con/Int) and different racial traits (Martial Advantage vs Save Face).
Therefore: either the PC racial traits are not true of all hobgoblins (as the MM hobgoblin clearly shows) OR the PC hobgoblin is a distinct species different from the MM hobgoblin.

Occam's razor should tell you which is correct.

It does. Occam's Razor clearly tells me that the lower stat numbers for PCs is purely for balance reasons and that they are in fact the same race. The PHB tells me that abilities like Martial Advantage vs. Save Face aren't racial abilities, so Occam's Razor doesn't even apply to that portion.

So here are also the real facts.

1) The racial traits in the MM are Str, Dex, Con and Int for those special members that would rise to be a captain(or perhaps a PC).
2) Hobgoblins are not a PC race. They are specifically a monstrous race that Volo's provides rules for just in case the DM wants to allow monsters to be played. Had they been a PC race, they would have been placed with the Character Races a the beginning of Volo's.
3) The designers felt that the PCs were exceptional members of the race and gave Con and Int.
4) You are adding racial abilities that don't exist in the game, like Martial Advantages and Save Face.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I would have accepted fixed +2 /float +1 and remove the asi from subraces. I also have no problem with the proficiency and language swaps. But I'm accepting of what we got and I don't think the game will die from it. It already can handle 20th level dwarven sorcerers with 20 Charisma, it can handle this.

I'm sure the game can handle this, but I still think think the new rule is bad. Floating +1 would have been perfectly sufficient to satisfy people who want to always to start with a 16 and would have been easier to swallow for those who want bonuses to be tied to the races. Like you and Helldritch just basically managed to agree that it would have been fine whilst you'd never agree on Tasha's version! This is not insignificant as I'm sure the opinions are equally divided on actual existing player groups who now need to agree on what rules to use. What WotC did is a divisive overkill that produces at least the same amount of balance issues that it fixes.

 

[Remathilis]

are adding racial abilities that don't exist in the game, like Martial Advantages and Save Face.

Umm...

Hobgoblin
VGM p119
Ability Scores: Con +2; Int +1
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 ft.
Age. Hobgoblins mature at the same rate as humans and have lifespans similar in length to theirs.
Alignment. Hobgoblin society is built on fidelity to a rigid, unforgiving code of conduct. As such, they tend toward lawful evil.
Size. Hobgoblins are between 5 and 6 feet tall and weigh between 150 and 200 pounds. Your size is Medium.
Darkvision. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Martial Training. You are proficient with two martial weapons of your choice and with light armor.
Saving Face. Hobgoblins are careful not to show weakness in front of their allies, for fear of losing status. If you miss with an attack roll or fail an ability check or a saving throw, you can gain a bonus to the roll equal to the number of allies you can see within 30 feet of you (maximum bonus of +5). Once you use this trait, you can't use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and Goblin.

But sure, I added that. [emoji849]

 

[Alzrius]

It's important to note that racial traits are a mix of biology, society and personal ability. An ridge elf's +2 Dex can be justified as biological, but what about his proficiency in bows or cantrip? An elves proficiency in Perception could be viewed as biological, but what of a half elves two skill proficiencies?

Actually, I've always wondered if that's necessarily the case. In a world where magic is both prevalent and powerful, and interventionist deities objectively exist (insert the usual Eberron disclaimer here), perhaps some of the racial modifiers that we deem to be cultural could instead be inherent. Could Corellon Larethian not have made all elves proficient with bows, regardless of their training with them? Could being able to speak elven not be some sort of "racial memory"?

Taken in that regard, the idea that humans were ubermensch compared to demihumans made a lot more sense, since it highlighted how humans didn't have their strengths and weaknesses inherently determined; each individual could choose them for themselves (though obviously, this was a lot more true in older editions of the game). In that regard, it seemed like no accident that there was no "god of humans" the way the elves have Corellon and the dwarves have Moradin, etc.

 

[Remathilis]

Actually, I've always wondered if that's necessarily the case. In a world where magic is both prevalent and powerful, and interventionist deities objectively exist (insert the usual Eberron disclaimer here), perhaps some of the racial modifiers that we deem to be cultural could instead be inherent. Could Corellon Larethian not have made all elves proficient with bows, regardless of their training with them? Could being able to speak elven not be some sort of "racial memory"?

Taken in that regard, the idea that humans were ubermensch compared to demihumans made a lot more sense, since it highlighted how humans didn't have their strengths and weaknesses inherently determined; each individual could choose them for themselves (though obviously, this was a lot more true in older editions of the game). In that regard, it seemed like no accident that there was no "god of humans" the way the elves have Corellon and the dwarves have Moradin, etc.

It's an interesting concept, but right now we have had a huge debate about evil gods making evil races, so I don't imagine that will be a take WotC will explore.

 

[Helldritch]

I would have accepted fixed +2 /float +1 and remove the asi from subraces. I also have no problem with the proficiency and language swaps. But I'm accepting of what we got and I don't think the game will die from it. It already can handle 20th level dwarven sorcerers with 20 Charisma, it can handle this.

And so did I. As well as a 20 st Halfling barb. A 20th level dwarven wizard in plate and many others. Again, when the exception becomes the norm, it loses both its appeal and its novelty. Ho well, another lizard man wizard (yawn...). Or an elven barb (yawn so hard that the lower jaw drops to the floor.) When you have to fight against premises and mechanics, doing the exception is both commendable and memorable. Especially when you reach high level despite the pits and falls you had to overcome. Otherwise, yaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwnnnnn....

But that said. What you would accept is fine when it is the exception. I do agree with you that language and proficiency are so so in race defining. But fey ancestry, spell casting and the others are not. The new Tasha just breaks these into powers to chose for no good reasons at all. But, that is my POV.

I'm sure the game can handle this, but I still think think the new rule is bad. Floating +1 would have been perfectly sufficient to satisfy people who want to always to start with a 16 and would have been easier to swallow for those who want bonuses to be tied to the races. Like you and Helldritch just basically managed to agree that it would have been fine whilst you'd never agree on Tasha's version! This is not insignificant as I'm sure the opinions are equally divided on actual existing player groups who now need to agree what rules to use. What WotC did is a divisive overkill that produces at least the same amount of balance issues that it fixes.

Yep. But as I have stated before. Everyone will, sooner or later, make only either half elves, or mountain dwarves... Half-elves for MAD builds. Mountain dwarves for single class builds that are not MAD. What an impressive amount of versatility we'll have.

Heck, a 14 year old stopped me by the store and asked me if he was right in thinking this... and she started D&D only two years ago (say thanks to both Friday Night D&D and Stranger Things). At least, there will be psionic class. She loves 11.