Cleric Won't Heal?

[TwoSix]

We have a saying here: "Cures are better as hit points in the recipient than they are as spells in the Cleric".

I'd say use the magical healing first. Why? Because using one's hit dice is something anyone can do, and thus those hit dice are better kept in reserve for situations where there is no healer, or the healer is out of juice.

That might work OK in older games, but healing spells aren't efficient enough to justify the expenditure in 5e. I'd rather see my cleric using spirit guardians than healing someone for 3d8+4.

There are certainly counterexamples, of course, prayer of healing and aura of vitality are excellent out of combat heals. I generally find one good use of those and then spending hit die to top off is generally the best result.

Running out of spells completely is generally an indicator that the party is overextended and needs to pull back; you really shouldn't be reaching that point until you've expended nearly all else of your non-consumable resources. Save consumables for the real emergencies.

 

[DnD Warlord]

Try asking them them the actual question. Here's some words so the way the question is asked doesn't introduce bias, just delivers the salient points.

"During session 0 when everyone is coming up with characters, one person has a concept that works well as a cleric, but they don't intend to spend much time healing - just some clutch healing if needed. Everyone knows this and can choose to play a more dedicated healer, or even someone else who will occasionally heal.

"Do you believe it is selfish to then turn around and during play always demand this player play their character as a primary healer?"

I will copy and paste that mostly. I refuse to use the word demand (because as you said no bias) and will replace it with ask for

 

[DnD Warlord]

Why yes, there are comments saying clerics should heal on demand. That have a problem if they "call for healing" and the cleric doesn't do it, that's a problem and they would want to get rid of the player.

Perhaps not you, but when you make claims that "anyone", that's beyond your own posts.

Again, your comment to read the thread find a different target then you intended.

No one demanded. Calling for healing when you need it is normal in D&D

the “veto the character” option is very friendly in a group who have been friends for 17+ years (okay we do have 1 new player but she is cool and gets it).

and yes, if you start your pitch with “how I don’t want to help when you need it” that is a bad start

 

[DnD Warlord]

That might work OK in older games, but healing spells aren't efficient enough to justify the expenditure in 5e. I'd rather see my cleric using spirit guardians than healing someone for 3d8+4.

There are certainly counterexamples, of course, prayer of healing and aura of vitality are excellent out of combat heals. I generally find one good use of those and then spending hit die to top off is generally the best result.

Running out of spells completely is generally an indicator that the party is overextended and needs to pull back; you really shouldn't be reaching that point until you've expended nearly all else of your non-consumable resources. Save consumables for the real emergencies.

You know the funny part is you are absolutely right. When it works well out of combat healing is best... I love the HD mechanic. But you can’t always take a short rest, and you sometimes need healing in a fight. Keeping everyone up and acting is the best choice most times.

99.9% of gamers I have ever seen (not with standing 1st level when any 1 hit can drop you) don’t ask for healing until they are under half hp(I love bloodied as the term for it) and in high level games sometimes not till 1/4 ho remain. But when a party member says “Hey that spell you preped, I need it” the default answer should not be “that spell isn’t fun”.

 

[DnD Warlord]

Try asking them them the actual question. Here's some words so the way the question is asked doesn't introduce bias, just delivers the salient points.

"During session 0 when everyone is coming up with characters, one person has a concept that works well as a cleric, but they don't intend to spend much time healing - just some clutch healing if needed. Everyone knows this and can choose to play a more dedicated healer, or even someone else who will occasionally heal.

"Do you believe it is selfish to then turn around and during play always demand this player play their character as a primary healer?"

Okay so here is the post I just made on our face book group for Tuesday night game (bonus 2 players not currently able to play are still in group so we will get MORE responses)

Hypothetically, on character creation night, one person has a concept that works well as a cleric, but they don't intend to spend much time healing - just some clutch healing if needed.
Do you believe it is selfish to then turn around and during play always ask this player to heal?

 

[TwoSix]

You know the funny part is you are absolutely right. When it works well out of combat healing is best... I love the HD mechanic. But you can’t always take a short rest, and you sometimes need healing in a fight. Keeping everyone up and acting is the best choice most times.

99.9% of gamers I have ever seen (not with standing 1st level when any 1 hit can drop you) don’t ask for healing until they are under half hp(I love bloodied as the term for it) and in high level games sometimes not till 1/4 ho remain. But when a party member says “Hey that spell you preped, I need it” the default answer should not be “that spell isn’t fun”.

A lot of it comes down to the timing of the fight. If the bad guy's action is between the healer and the wounded character, than investing enough healing into keeping the character up an extra round is probably a worthwhile investment, assuming the wounded character can bring some offense to the table.

Yea, nobody asks for healing until they're usually about 1 hit away from death, which to me is really the only time in-combat healing should be considered feasible. But choosing to heal is ultimately a tactical consideration that needs to be made by the healer, since I assume that getting to make those choices is why they wanted to play a potential healing character to begin with.

 

[nevin]

Okay so here is the post I just made on our face book group for Tuesday night game (bonus 2 players not currently able to play are still in group so we will get MORE responses)

Hypothetically, on character creation night, one person has a concept that works well as a cleric, but they don't intend to spend much time healing - just some clutch healing if needed.
Do you believe it is selfish to then turn around and during play always ask this player to heal?

Is it selfish for the cleric to ask the party to stand shoulder to shoulder in combat? I'd say whatever your answer to that is the answer to the other.

 

[NotAYakk]

A lot of it comes down to the timing of the fight. If the bad guy's action is between the healer and the wounded character, than investing enough healing into keeping the character up an extra round is probably a worthwhile investment, assuming the wounded character can bring some offense to the table.

Yea, nobody asks for healing until they're usually about 1 hit away from death, which to me is really the only time in-combat healing should be considered feasible. But choosing to heal is ultimately a tactical consideration that needs to be made by the healer, since I assume that getting to make those choices is why they wanted to play a potential healing character to begin with.

And if you are 1 hit away from death, the proper action is probably disengage and move away (or dodge and hold your ground). Or hit and drop the foe.

Sure, you are a fighter with lots of AC/HP. But if the BBEG has been focusing on you, the cleric or wizard or rogue probably has a bunch of HP to spend.

This costs you your ability to do something active.

 

[DnD Warlord]

Is it selfish for the cleric to ask the party to stand shoulder to shoulder in combat? I'd say whatever your answer to that is the answer to the other.

I will also paraphrase that as “is it selfish for a player to ask the party to stand shoulder to shoulder in combat

 

[DnD Warlord]

Okay, first response in, and it is one of those not currently playing. I am redacting some names to protect the not so innocent. Although I will add that the harsh language is coming from and directed toward 2 people who have been friends since the 80s and one was best man at others wedding 8 years ago



SO this is XXXX bitching again isn’t it. Seriously I have played more clerics then anyone, and if you don’t want to heal that is fine, but you better not be grand standing and trying to out fight a fighter like XXXX did. I mean god I can only assume game has gotten worse since I left. If someone is asking for healing and your saying “Wahy, I don’t want to heal, I want to fight” you are being a piss poor team player. 5e is already girly man D&D and dying is hard enough. If someone is asking for a heal it must be important, if you have the damn spell then cast it. Then again I bet XXXX would prep plenty of healing and just keep it to himself, just like XXXX. SO yeah, I would most likely on CC night be like “Hard pass” play a different concept one that one cause hard feelings…



Then again if this was a new player I would be nicer… but (non friendly word removed) XXXXX… I love you but god, just be a team player.



I answered: Not XXXX he isn’t in the current campaign, and this is just hypothetical.



However as I was typing that our newest player (only one not playing with us since 3e or earlier) jumped in with:



Why would someone want to play a cleric or any spell caster and say they don’t want to cast a spell they are going to learn or prep?!?!?!??!?!?!!?!?!??!