Playtest (A5E) Level Up Playtest Document #6: Sorcerer

Welcome to the 6th Level Up playtest document. This playtest contains a candidate for the first 10 levels of game’s sorcerer class.

Download the playtest document

What this is​

This is a playtest document. We’d love you to try out the rules presented here, and then answer the follow-up survey in a few days.

What this is not​

This is NOT the final game. It’s OK if you don’t like elements of these rules; that’s the purpose of a playtest document. Be sure to participate in the follow-up survey in a few days. All data, positive or negative is useful.

What we use this for​

Your survey responses help form the direction of the game as it goes through the development process.

Don’t forget!​

Sign up for the mailing list for notifications of playtests, surveys, and news, and to make sure you get notified on Kickstarter when the project launches in 2021.

Continue reading...

 

[RSIxidor]

Manifestation feels limiting when considering some of the subclasses. Maybe those specific subclasses allow for picking a new manifestation that fits those subclasses?
Overall, I like the direction here.

 

[rules.mechanic]

I really like it. Sorcerer is one of my default classes (when I'm not a forever DM) and this is a definite improvement in flavour and mechanics on the 5e sorcerer. It's not as transformative as the A5E fighter or rogue but magic users already get meaningful choices at each level with their spells, so the combat maneuvers in other classes feels like a good balance. @Jessica Wolfman's suggestion of expanding the conduit types is great (just needs to be balanced against common resistances - the force sorcerer would cast a mean fireball) and channeling damage of your conduit type into spell points or temporary HPs is a fantastic idea.

 

[maceochaid]

Level Up is doing something I'm really excited about. Giving rules for the other two pillars, exploration and social interaction. However I would really like them to layout what their fundamental design principals are around these. I still feel that games require some form of win/loose state and a resource management mechanic to really click. Combat has this in HP, spell slots, and other limited use abilities. I feel that if you are going to add this framework with exploration knacks and interaction abilities they need to be part of a full system like combat. Without seeing the whole picture it's hard for me to understand these individual pieces.

 

[Blue]

Small comment. Keeping an eye out about multiclass cherrypicking:


Deep Conduit - do you want to limit this to HD gained form Sorcerer levels?

Patient Attitude - this should be restricted with the same wording as bardic magical secrets such that it's not your total spell slots, just the ones from sorcerers.

 

[tetrasodium]

Put me down for another who kinda hoped sorcerer would be con rather than charisma because charisma is such a dominating stat in social situations but I think it works & for once enough of the class leans into the charisma based core rather than just pretending it's just like a wizard but better in a lot of ways. With that said, metamagic & manifestations can be pretty powerful so I worry that there will still be a lot of this depending on how wizard & the new spell lists turn out... For now I'll assume wizard is up to snuff in its own ways when we get it

Manifestations are not well balanced among each other unless the spell lists really surprise us. More importantly, I worry if whatever the wizard gets will be enough for some of the more impressive ones

Spoiler: The manifestations

• Blizzard: "When you cast a spell that deals cold damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point and choose one creature you can see. If that creature takes cold damage from the spell, it is also chilled, reducing its movement speed by 10 feet for a number of rounds equal to the level of the spell." Ten feet really is not much when your talking about 1 creature but coupled with the damage seeming to make even single target spells multitarget it might work. One definitely problematic note is that this could literally make a spell have a 3 mile range & possibly even work through things like scrying.
• Caustic: "When you cast a spell that deals acid damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point and choose one creature you can see. If that creature takes acid damage from the spell, its Armor Class is reduced by an amount equal to the level of the spell until the end of your next turn. " This is one could be really good... buuuuuut... there are almost no acid damage spells & that absolutely needs to change when we eventually get the new spells.
• Inferno: "When you cast a spell that deals fire damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point and choose one creature you can see. If that creature takes fire damage from the spell, it is also set ablaze, taking 2d4 fire damage per level of the spell at the end of each of its turns until it takes an action to put itself out." 2d4*spell level DoT is a massive amount of damage so this is another really strong option even if it only takes any hypothetical action & doing so does not provoke an AoO. Again this could let you DoT someone 3 miles away.
• Hurricane: "When you cast a spell that deals lightning or thunder damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point to move yourself 10 feet in any direction. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks." a 10 foot mistystep type thing with a spell cast might seem really neat, but compared to blizzard caustic & inferno this is just terrible. Depeding on how spell lists tuern out however this could wind up pretty decet if evolved.
• Venom: "When you cast a spell that deals poison damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point, causing creatures immune to poison damage to take half damage, and creatures resistant to poison damage to take full damage." Like acid damage spells, there are just not many poison damage spells. until we see the new spell list this might as well read "You can spend a sorcery point to deal half damage instead of none of a poison spray cast against undead constructs & lots of other stuff." The seemingly poor showing here paired with the "lets go it's going to die" ability this gains when evolved makes the venom chain into one of the more powerful ones though & cutting poison immune to poison resist makes a huge deal then.

Latent power: These look really promising & I like that they play up the "I use charisma & I'm good at it" with expertise dice & new ways of using relevant skills aspect rather than pretending sorcerer is just a wizard who dominates in social situations.

Metamagic: I like the minor/moderate split that doesn't continue pretending all metamagics are of equal value.

Arcane refinement These are all pretty interesting & I like them

Spoiler: arcane refinements

• Deep Conduit: Burn some hit dice on a short rest & take 1d6 damage/die but gain 2 sorcery points each die. I kinda like the flavor of draining your bloodline/life force/whatever to cast a bit more paired with the sorcerer fluff. Being linked to hit dice rather than just any shot rest get x is a good balance consideration that has the added benefit of making sorcerers care about their hit dice. It also means this sorcerer has a lot of spell slots if someone is around to heal them.
• Patient Aptitude: At least by default ritual spells just kinda stop around 3rd level for arcane casters, hopefully the new spell lists improve upon this somewhat but by allowing them to pull rituals from any spell list means this can include wow worthy trump cards to save the day like the various raise dead spells. Even if this is used entirely for utility, getting 5 ritual spells of choice is a huge utility fig leaf making this a great choice for a lot of sorcerers... while talking about ritual spells though, the third level ritual improved force cage spell needs to be stomped to hell till the unchecked munchkin is squeezed out.
• Prodigious innovator: While three cantrips might not seem as good as what is gained from either of the other two, allowing them from any spell list means eldritch blast& utility/dual use cantrips not normally open to sorcerer or even arcane casters. I'm not sure if the new spell list will make this better or just the same but eldritch blast going from a class feature in 3.5 to a cantrip in 5e is still causing problems so hopefully that will revert when we see warlock.

Rapturous Presence: These are pretty cool in how they play up the charisma angle in interesting ways

Spoiler: Rapturous Presence

• Larger than life: I love that this shoves sorcerer away from persuade to "we both know what this spell does" & links it to using your spells to threaten someone. Giving it a second intimidation die makes it pair well with daunting energy too.
• Nobody's fool: I'm really liking the use of auras to influence things. Mechanically i seems solid & the blurt out slip of the tongue is neat like some of the rogue stuff.
• Otherworldly: This feels a little druidic, but works well here too & being able to change the creature type with a reasonable cost/short 1 min is a good way to ensure it can be flexible throughout the campaign.

Evolving manifestation: Interesting than you can pick the second tier of your last choice or a second manifestation from the first tier

Spoiler: Evolving manifestations

• Evolving blizzard: Really interesting combo of gaining temp hp & a damage shield to go with it.
• Evolving Caustic: Nice little bump for an underrepresented damage type but still looking forward to seeing the eventual spell lists.
• Evolving Hurricane: Interesting spirit guardians type heavily obscured difficult terrain effect. It's too early to say without lots of testing & the new spells list, but this might make up for the meh worthy teleport in the first tier depending on how it pairs with other things we've yet to see if we wind up with a lot of spells like call lightning that improve when in the presence of a storm or obscured areas who knows.
• Evolving inferno: 1d6*spell level spell attack when you cast a fire spell. Paired with the 2d4* spell level for 2 spell points this could make for some really nasty single target damage.
• Evolving venom: 2d6 poison damage/turn until cured with a medicine check with a dc vrs your spell save dc. For a ton of creatures this amounts to "ok it's dead, lets run & come back later when its body figures it out."

Exploration knacks: There are some real winners here & they compare very nicely compared to the disappointing druid ones.

Spoiler: Exploration knacks

• Hot air: If you have spell points you take fall damage d6/20 feet rather than d6/10 feet makes a maybe sometimes useful feather. More interesting is the ability to "float" on water depending on how much you are carrying, but most creatures already do that & it's not clear if that means some form of walk or just "you don't sink." If walk that opens up a lot of cool possible uses, if float without a skill check... it feels kinda meh.
• Magnetic step: Kind of a weird magical climb speed that just feels neat
• Strange traces: Use a sorcery point to obscure any tracks " your group" makes to be "random zig zagging & incomprehensible" making creatures tracking you have disadvantage & possibly cause them to get lost making for a much more interesting pass without a trace when trying not to be followed. This is entirely natural terrain though and adding a clause for urban equivalent with people & the general urban chaos of life frequently seen in movie/tv urban foot chases would make this a real winner even if the campaign winds p being pretty urban where survival tracking is just not how it works.
• Weird insight: get a second roll on history/nature/religion check at the cost of some mindfog that causes disadvantage on int checks till next short rest. Long rest is not mentioned & it's probably not intended to last till you take a short rest after a long rest if the long rest happens first... but by RAW that's what it does.... With most of my normal group having gone through covid & associated mind fog back in feb this feels like one we could understand reallllly well too.
• Wode Sense: Notice you enter illusory terrain within one minute of entering it seems pretty niche but going to be really useful for some campaigns & gives the gm a fun hook they can yank to just frankly tell the party they aren't in kansas anymore

 

[Faolyn]

• Blizzard: "When you cast a spell that deals cold damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point and choose one creature you can see. If that creature takes cold damage from the spell, it is also chilled, reducing its movement speed by 10 feet for a number of rounds equal to the level of the spell." Ten feet really is not much when your talking about 1 creature but coupled with the damage seeming to make even single target spells multitarget it might work. One definitely problematic note is that this could literally make a spell have a 3 mile range & possibly even work through things like scrying.

Where are you getting three miles from? Even the longest-ranging sorcerer spells only have a range of 1 mile (and is 9th level), and the longest ranging sorcerer spell that deals acid only has a range of 150 ft. Doubling those with extended spell doesn't increase the range of either of those to 3 miles.

And you can't cast spells through scrying. The PH states you have to have a clear path to the target of a spell; and from what I just read, there was a WotC podcast where they said it had be a travel path, not a visual one. You don't have that through scrying.

• Caustic: "When you cast a spell that deals acid damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point and choose one creature you can see. If that creature takes acid damage from the spell, its Armor Class is reduced by an amount equal to the level of the spell until the end of your next turn. " This is one could be really good... buuuuuut... there are almost no acid damage spells & that absolutely needs to change when we eventually get the new spells.

Since as it stands right now, a 20th level wizard knows a total of 21 spells (including cantrips), the fact that there are only 9 sorcerer spells that deal acid damage isn't that big a deal--especially since we are getting new spells in Tasha's, and there might be new spells in LU.

And don't forget that people might multiclass, or have racial/ancestry spells that inflict damage.

• Inferno: "When you cast a spell that deals fire damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point and choose one creature you can see. If that creature takes fire damage from the spell, it is also set ablaze, taking 2d4 fire damage per level of the spell at the end of each of its turns until it takes an action to put itself out." 2d4*spell level DoT is a massive amount of damage so this is another really strong option even if it only takes any hypothetical action & doing so does not provoke an AoO. Again this could let you DoT someone 3 miles away.

Agreed; it should be noted that alchemist's fire only inflicts 1d4 fire damage per turn. I realize this is elemental damage akin to what a fire elemental causes, but it's a bit strong.

 

[tetrasodium]

Where are you getting three miles from? Even the longest-ranging sorcerer spells only have a range of 1 mile (and is 9th level), and the longest ranging sorcerer spell that deals acid only has a range of 150 ft. Doubling those with extended spell doesn't increase the range of either of those to 3 miles.

And you can't cast spells through scrying. The PH states you have to have a clear path to the target of a spell; and from what I just read, there was a WotC podcast where they said it had be a travel path, not a visual one. You don't have that through scrying.


Since as it stands right now, a 20th level wizard knows a total of 21 spells (including cantrips), the fact that there are only 9 sorcerer spells that deal acid damage isn't that big a deal--especially since we are getting new spells in Tasha's, and there might be new spells in LU.

And don't forget that people might multiclass, or have racial/ancestry spells that inflict damage.

Agreed; it should be noted that alchemist's fire only inflicts 1d4 fire damage per turn. I realize this is elemental damage akin to what a fire elemental causes, but it's a bit strong.

Spoiler: source

from here

Normally this sort of thing includes words such as "within range" to avoid needlessly risking this sort of thing

 

[dwayne]

I didn't read it, but for me the sorcerer should have the abilities tied to their blood line, be it fae, dragon, or something else. There selection of abilities and spells should reflect this, as well. But in doing this it would make the class very odd but i think much more fun as well, with each blood line having it's own take on magic and abilities. I seen some things around like blood magic and things as classes, but most those are geared to a different thing. I would more focus on the blood lines, and the abilities of those who are of it's lines. For dragons it would be based off the color electric like spell effects for blue and such, and gaining a natural higher base armor and claw attacks and even wings and such. Fae the same in spell selection would be more enchantment/charm or deception and trickery and fight would be in the picture but not the natural armor but with illusion and other deceptive spell like effects you would not need it. Any way just an idea, good luck on the project though.

 

[rules.mechanic]

@tetrasodium I liked your analysis. But for this bit:

there are almost no acid damage spells & that absolutely needs to change when we eventually get the new spells.

It helps that your Conduit also gives you:

"When you cast a
spell that deals acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison,
or thunder damage, you can change the damage
type to your Conduit’s damage type."

 

[Rabulias]

View attachment 128480

If you read the next sentence after your highlighted ones, you will see that the seen creature must have taken damage from the spell, so it is limited by the spell's existing range and there is no range escalation exploit here.