D&D 5E Binder Class Interest Check?

[Eltab]

What do you call the binder who lets a being possess them?

What do you call the binder who has a single constantly-bound guardian?

a Medium
and
a Conduit

I think; although 'conduit' makes me think of electric cables more than ghosts/spirits.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

a Medium
and
a Conduit

I think; although 'conduit' makes me think of electric cables more than ghosts/spirits.

Those could work.

I’m working on really esoteric sounding names for my Swordmage, stuff that sounds like you might see it either in a manual of fighting by someone like Thibault, or as the name of a secret Hermetic Order of some kind. School of The Goetic Circle, School of The White Lotus, School of The Noble Compass (four noble elements), etc.

I wonder if similar naming wouldn’t be appropriate here.

Order of The XYZ, perhaps?

My assassin has Guilds named for supernatural monsters, like the Manticore or the Wraith or the Doppelgänger, and their tactics and tools match their namesake to some degree.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

As a big fan of the Ars Goethia, I'd suggest going with the term ''Key of XYZ'' for the archetypes name. The ''Key'' you use/chose (aka how you deal with the Vestige) indict, in-fiction, how and why you manipulate the Seals of the Vestiges.

Key of the Demonologist (Constantine)
Key of the Ghostwise (ghostbusters! or shaman, I see dead people etc)
Key of the Incarnum (summoner)
Key of the Stars (Chtuhlu Mythos, 4e star-lock)

and I'd vote for an Int class. Its all about making intricate and complex Seals to bind weakened Powers: even if your tough, even if your a smooth talker, should the Vestige break the Seal and somehow recovers from its bound state, you are dead meat. Only someone with a perfect understanding of the hermetic knowledge of binding has chance to reach level 2

 

[doctorbadwolf]

As a big fan of the Ars Goethia, I'd suggest going with the term ''Key of XYZ'' for the archetypes name. The ''Key'' you use/chose (aka how you deal with the Vestige) indict, in-fiction, how and why you manipulate the Seals of the Vestiges.

Key of the Demonologist (Constantine)
Key of the Ghostwise (ghostbusters! or shaman, I see dead people etc)
Key of the Incarnum (summoner)
Key of the Stars (Chtuhlu Mythos, 4e star-lock)

and I'd vote for an Int class. Its all about making intricate and complex Seals to bind weakened Powers: even if your tough, even if your a smooth talker, should the Vestige break the Seal and somehow recovers from its bound state, you are dead meat. Only someone with a perfect understanding of the hermetic knowledge of binding has chance to reach level 2

My concept for the con score is that they are channeling the power through themselves physically, after basically using rituals to bind the sort of power to their bodies that sorcerers are born with.

Like, imagine an arcane ritual where you bind part of the essence of a dragon into an elixir made with your own blood, and drink it. That speaks to me of a power that burns out those not strong enough to contain it.

And it’s fun to have the summoner class be extremely hard to break concentration on.

Also also, Sorcerers should cast with Con, IMO.

But...I might compromise and make them Int with con save proficiency, and maybe an ability to risk exhaustion to turn a failed Concentration save into a success.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

My wife suggested something I hadn't thought of.

Perhaps the Binder can burn their Hit Dice to fuel their magic?

A modal invocation system would probably work well for a Binder class. Something that lets you swap between "active" soul binds, and eventually gain the ability to have more than one "active" soul bind at certain levels (11th, etc). You can even use small invocation trees, like:

Vestige of the Shadow King
Prerequisite: Binder Level 5.
As an action, you call upon the vestige of Larloch, the Shadow King and remove the benefits of any other vestige. While this vestige is active, you gain advantage on all Charisma (Deception) checks. Additionally, whenever you hit with the Ray of Frost or Chill Touch cantrips, the target understands they have been damaged, but cannot determine you are the source of it.

Whispers of the Shadow King
Prerequisite: Vestige of the Shadow King
While Vestige of the Shadow King is active, casting the Suggestion spell does not require verbal or material components. You may cast the Suggestion spell once per short rest without expending a Binder spell slot.

I like that, and that type of thing definitely needs a specific name that can be referenced for rules like, "You can only have one XYZ active at a time". Perhaps this is where the term Seal is appropriate? So, Seal of The Shadow King? Hell, you can even have Lesser Key of The Shadow King, and then a Greater Seal of The Shadow King. That sounds hermetic as hell.

The vestige of Apollo (Greek god) grants one creature, chosen by the Binder, a bonus to archery weapons, which become magical and gain a +1more bonus to to-hit and damage rolls. Arrows may be imbued with one of three powers - doubled, accurate, or exploding - which the archer can pick each turn. The archer can "ignore the Loading property" (as the Crossbow feat) so he can rapid fire while under the vestige's influence.

Out of combat, the vestige of Apollo grants the target creature proficiency with the Medicine skill.

Is this something like what you had in mind?

Hmmmm....

Okay! I think that the Invocation ability could be called Seals, and the seals that imbue you with the some part of a greater Power are Vestiges? Or the other way around? Either way, I like the idea that a subset of those features are big abilities that imbue you with power in a specific way. A separate kind can be the "big badaboom" I was talking about before. 1/LR you can call upon the name of the Great Wyrm Xalathrexylgaratat. You disapear from your space, shunted into a demiplane, and in your place is the visage of the Great Wyrm. It has the following actions available to it.
Give it actions, reactions, and one or two options for Legendary Actions.

IDK, maybe the structure of the class isn't right for having all of these and spellcasting, but we will see when I have a chance to actually write up a draft of levels 1-6.

 

[Samloyal23]

I'm not sure we need a separate class for Binder; I'd prefer "The Vestige" as a Warlock patron and give the subclass more 3.5e Tome of Magic Binder-like qualities a la the Hexblade patron does above and beyond for Bladelocks.

I don't see how that would make sense, because Binders dominate and coerce their vestiges to gain power, and they frequently switch vestiges. A warlock makes a deal with single Patron who gives him access to magical shortcuts for its own purposes.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

My concept for the con score is that they are channeling the power through themselves physically, after basically using rituals to bind the sort of power to their bodies that sorcerers are born with.

Like, imagine an arcane ritual where you bind part of the essence of a dragon into an elixir made with your own blood, and drink it. That speaks to me of a power that burns out those not strong enough to contain it.

And it’s fun to have the summoner class be extremely hard to break concentration on.

Also also, Sorcerers should cast with Con, IMO.

But...I might compromise and make them Int with con save proficiency, and maybe an ability to risk exhaustion to turn a failed Concentration save into a success.

Agreed on the sorcerer.

I you go with the idea of binding with physical, tangible means (potions, items, physical seals) instead of an intangible process of soul fusion, I agree that Con would make sense (probably Con + Wis) for the sheer strain on the body when being forced to contain a Power.

Speaking of which, a mix of Artificer + Warlock in both theme and mechanic would be pretty mean. I wish the Artificer was not as much mech/tech-oriented as it is, so it would better support more medieval/gothic themes, such as rune-carver, totemist, blood/tatoo mage and goethic binder. I myself, created a Shaman archetype for the Artificer, using the old idea of Incarnum Sould-melding, creating items from beast and monstrosities and gaining some of their traits.

anyway, good work as always.

 

[Inchoroi]

The folks at Middle Finger of Vecna have done a very complete Binder: Complete Binder (PDF)

Or the updated version: Binder Redux (free)

If you are interested.

This is on my list of characters to play, whenever I get the chance to be a player instead of a ForeverDM.

 

[Iry]

I think that the Invocation ability could be called Seals, and the seals that imbue you with the some part of a greater Power are Vestiges?

I would stick with Invocation. That's an accurate word for what the Binder does, and obeys the KISS rule by keeping the terminology familiar.
Lesser Key and Greater Key are great names for the specific Invocations, though!

I don't see how that would make sense, because Binders dominate and coerce their vestiges to gain power, and they frequently switch vestiges. A warlock makes a deal with single Patron who gives him access to magical shortcuts for its own purposes.

Yeah. Hot swapping vestiges was not the core of the Binder class, but definitely a thing they could do. Binders could absolutely be built upon the Warlock chassis, but have enough difference that they should probably be their own class. Binder is to Warlock what Sorcerer is to Wizard.

As for subclasses, I vote one for channeling power into yourself, one for better hot swapping between vestiges, and one for summoning since the OP really seems to want a summoner (and I'm cool with that). I will always imagine the Binder summons like Ray Harryhausen skeletons from Clash of the Titans. Which is fitting, since that's exactly what the Teeth of Dahlver-Nar do, and Dahlver-Nar was a canonical vestige.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I keep circling back to wondering if I could make a ritual caster with invocations and no spell slot Spellcasting at all work...

I know I want the class to have ritual casting from level 1, and find familiar on its list, and subclass gives you what you are good at binding at level 1, and then you get better at it when you get your vessel at 3.

none of that necessarily requires normal Spellcasting.