I want smaller, leaner core books.

[dragoner]

So my 30 book series detailing the closest 500 star systems is a no go?

 

[darjr]

Apologies, I haven't read the thread. Mike Mearls put this up on lulu, though I'm not sure if it was ACTUALLY Mike Mearls.

Page Not Found | Lulu

Why not go with that?

D&D 5E - Basic rules paperback tweeted by Morrus

http://www.lulu.com/shop/mike-mearls/dd-basic-rules/paperback/product-21702267.html Morrus tweeted this an hour ago. Is anyone talking about this here? I didn't see any discussion. Does anybody have info on whether this is legit or they just stole the PDF?

www.enworld.org

I'm almost certain it isn't legit, however.

Has anyone tried it?

 

[darjr]

Dungeons & Dragons | The World's Greatest Roleplaying Game

The official home and digital toolset for Dungeons & Dragons. Dive into D&D books, create a character, and more!

dnd.wizards.com

 

[pemerton]

I know most people love big giant hardbacks, but I really want to see the return of small, lean core rulebooks. There is no RPG that you could not present in a complete fashion in 64 pages with the right clarity of writing and layout. RPG core books are instruction manuals. They are technical writing. They can and should be much less prose dense and be much more utilitarian in design. Shove all those extra words in the supplements.

I've got nothing against small, lean core rulebooks.

But it's fairly obvious that there are RPGs that can't be presented in a complete fashion in 64 pages.

Some examples: Burning Wheel; Classic Traveller; AD&D; probably Apocalypse World (I haven't done the count on this last one, but the superfluity isn't that extensive).

 

[pemerton]

82 pages of the PHB are spells. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Bad.

 

[Umbran]

82 pages of the PHB are spells. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Bad.

It is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so.

Whether it is good or bad depends on what kind of game you want. RPGs are not one size fits all. Those 82 pages may be horrible for pemerton, but awesome for someone else.

If you like 64 page rulebooks, go find yourself a game that, by design, fits easily in 64 pages. Angsting over how a game that isn't designed for it doesn't manage the feat is not constructive.

Moreoever, this discussion contains a significant overtone of "the way I want it is objectively correct, and if other people have different desires or needs, they are just wrong," which is probably less true than most of you may think.

 

[loverdrive]

Well, I think that most of the modern games are quite lean. Blades in the Dark or Dungeon World have like 30 pages of rules and everything else is setting information, prompts and whatever else.

 

[pemerton]

Prince Valiant is 112 pages:

* 1 page of front matter

* 2 page ToC, 1 page index of illustrations

* 8 pages of intro/explanatory material (including 1 page example of play and 2 pages entitled "Goals for All Players")

* 8 pages on PC build

* 13 pages on action resolution

* 21 pages of GM ("storyteller") advice including 4 pages on how to award Fame (the system's version of XP)

* 11 pages of Advanced rules (including more skills and abiliities, PCs other than knights, sharing GM responsibilities)

* 3 pages of Optional rules

* 7 pages of geographic/setting info, maps etc

* 8 pages of sample NPCs (taken from the Prince Valiant stories)

* 25 pages of Episodes (ie sample adventure)

* 4 pages of sample PC sheets etc

That's 68 pages before getting to the setting info, sample adventures etc. I haven't counted how many pages would be saved if the illustrations were cut, but "several" is my rough estimate. There is some repetition in that 68 pages, but it doesn't cause problems in play. The only component of the game that is more complex than simple is the mass combat resolution system.

If the OP (@Reynard) hasn't tried it, I highly recommend it.

 

[pemerton]

It is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so.

I thought I was being asked for my opinion.

 

[Reynard]

So my 30 book series detailing the closest 500 star systems is a no go?

Supplements can be as ridiculously long as the market will bear. i am only talking about core rules here.