I want smaller, leaner core books.

[Reynard]

If I had known about this, I wouldn't have bothered buying a PHB.

It doesn't not have all the options, FYI, so if you want to play a tiefling warlock (just as an example) you are out of luck.

 

[TheSword]

I can safely say that the information on those 82 pages does not take 82 pages.

Well it does take 82 pages... I counted.

However if you mean, ‘should not’, then what would you take out?

 

[Jd Smith1]

It doesn't not have all the options, FYI, so if you want to play a tiefling warlock (just as an example) you are out of luck.

I didn't allow Tieflings in my last fantasy campaign. Or warlocks, for that matter.

 

[Earth2Carnifex]

My experience is, people like the theory of a rules lite game, but rarely actually like to them in reality. D&D 5E is a perfect example of this. The free rules, one of the starter boxes and an imagination, is plenty enough to play the game forever, and yet how many people actually do that? A few I am sure, but considering the continued good sales of 5E books, I would say not many. This is why 3E exploded in the way it did and why 5E will eventual be just as bloated, although at a much slower rate, both players and GM's like options, player love to pour over books looking for new and interesting character types and ideas to play, GM's like adventures they do not have to write themselves and even if they have their own home brewed world, they like setting materiel they can integrate into their own work. I am not saying there is no place for rules lite games, all I am saying is, book sales seem to indicate most (not all) RPG players don't mind a little bloat.

 

[Jd Smith1]

My experience is, people like the theory of a rules lite game, but rarely actually like to them in reality. D&D 5E is a perfect example of this. The free rules, one of the starter boxes and an imagination, is plenty enough to play the game forever, and yet how many people actually do that? A few I am sure, but considering the continued good sales of 5E books, I would say not many. This is why 3E exploded in the way it did and why 5E will eventual be just as bloated, although at a much slower rate, both players and GM's like options, player love to pour over books looking for new and interesting character types and ideas to play, GM's like adventures they do not have to write themselves and even if they have their own home brewed world, they like setting materiel they can integrate into their own work. I am not saying there is no place for rules lite games, all I am saying is, book sales seem to indicate most (not all) RPG players don't mind a little bloat.

The only 5e rule book I own is the PHB. I ran a weekly F2F campaign for a year with it. No expansions, no splatbooks.

 

[reelo]

It doesn't not have all the options, FYI, so if you want to play a tiefling warlock (just as an example) you are out of luck.

And that is precisely why, should I ever DM 5E again, I would limit my game to what's in the free rules.

 

[Aldarc]

My experience is, people like the theory of a rules lite game, but rarely actually like to them in reality. D&D 5E is a perfect example of this. The free rules, one of the starter boxes and an imagination, is plenty enough to play the game forever, and yet how many people actually do that? A few I am sure, but considering the continued good sales of 5E books, I would say not many. This is why 3E exploded in the way it did and why 5E will eventual be just as bloated, although at a much slower rate, both players and GM's like options, player love to pour over books looking for new and interesting character types and ideas to play, GM's like adventures they do not have to write themselves and even if they have their own home brewed world, they like setting materiel they can integrate into their own work. I am not saying there is no place for rules lite games, all I am saying is, book sales seem to indicate most (not all) RPG players don't mind a little bloat.

My experience doesn't match yours. So now what? Or is this only assuming D&D and not the cornucopia of other TTRPGs that are out there?

 

[Earth2Carnifex]

My experience doesn't match yours. So now what? Or is this only assuming D&D and not the cornucopia of other TTRPGs that are out there?

I am not sure there is much to say here. I am not surprised that you or anyone one else has a different experience than I do, I was simply expressing an opinion based on own experience, I thought I made this clear in my post, if I did not, I apologize.

 

[Reynard]

My experience is, people like the theory of a rules lite game, but rarely actually like to them in reality. D&D 5E is a perfect example of this. The free rules, one of the starter boxes and an imagination, is plenty enough to play the game forever, and yet how many people actually do that? A few I am sure, but considering the continued good sales of 5E books, I would say not many. This is why 3E exploded in the way it did and why 5E will eventual be just as bloated, although at a much slower rate, both players and GM's like options, player love to pour over books looking for new and interesting character types and ideas to play, GM's like adventures they do not have to write themselves and even if they have their own home brewed world, they like setting materiel they can integrate into their own work. I am not saying there is no place for rules lite games, all I am saying is, book sales seem to indicate most (not all) RPG players don't mind a little bloat

5E isn't a rules lite game. it is an exceptions based game. It is a collections of elements that site on top of the chassis of the game game engine, in a way that is pretty much infinitely stackable. No game with so many potential combinations can be considered "rules lite" no matter how simple the core mechanic might be.

Most rules light games are not like that. They have core sets of mechanics with defined limits of play in both scope and scale. Sometimes they are laser focused on one experience; sometimes they have the goal of making any game possible with the same simple rules. in either case, the goal is very different than the 5E design goal.

 

[nevin]

I find rules light games are great for players that just want to pick up things go and work great if the DM has a great imagination and can leverage it on the fly. That is where most rules light games break is the new GM can't keep up with the players. Modern D&D is the opposite of that. Here's a rule for everything.

I'd honestly say all versions of D&D since late 2e bury themselves in rules bloat and then that starts causing problems. It's easy to say I'm the GM and you can only use these rules, but the worst fights I've had have been with friends and long time players because I don't let them use things that don't fit my game or are just unbalanced or IMO plain stupid. Most people have a limited group of people they play with, don't have the option of letting their group self destruct over an argument over which supplements by the Game Devs they'll use. Because then they don't have a game.

I think all the D20 versions and people still playing 1st edition and 2e are a symptom of the fact that money is king and Devs love options because it makes more books. Unfortunately options always end the edition up in a hoarder style situation where there is so much stuff every decision becomes painful.