D&D General Miniatures shouldn't be edition-dependent (a Fire Giant size rant)

[Urriak Uruk]

Well, given that half-giants are a thing in D&D, and not just in Dark Sun either, they're setting-independent per the 3.5e Expanded Psionics Handbook, the idea of a human and a 17+ foot tall being mating is absurd.

With a "large" giant that might be 8 or 9 feet tall (on the low end, for a Hill Giant), that's not going into the realm of the absurd with regards to physical possibilities.

As was noted, "Large" in D&D 3.5e means anything from 8 feet tall to 16 feet tall. The tallest human alive, according to the Guinness book of Records is 8"2', and could count as "Large" per 3.x rules. The tallest man ever, at 8"11' almost certainly would be "Large" size.

An Ogre or Troll might be 8 or 9 feet tall. A Hill Giant might be 10 or 11 feet tall. . .a Fire or Frost Giant might be 14 or 15 feet tall. All size category "Large" for rules purposes.

It's much like how a four foot tall Dwarf, and a seven foot tall human (who in the real world would probably be asked if he's a basketball player) would both be size "Medium", size categories are a broad range for game mechanics purposes.

To further illustrate my point, this is literally the official size chart used in the Player's Handbook;

You can disagree with that all you like, and it won't matter anyway because you run 3E. But in 5E, giants are quite clearly Huge (they're literally the textbook example).

 

[Voadam]

If you look at Volo's cover, I think it is very hard to justify giants as anything smaller than huge.

And if you look at the cover of Against the Giants then large makes sense.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

And if you look at the cover of Against the Giants then large makes sense.

View attachment 130916

Look, I don't disagree! All I'm saying, is don't expect the size categories to remain consistent across all editions, or that they should. If you're going to buy miniatures for a different edition, you should check the size before you buy.

 

[Tyler Pickering]

I think giants should be huge unless they are children giants.

 

[Voadam]

The iconic giant comparison image for me:

It has been a neat quirk in many editions that frost giants are taller than fire giants despite the fire giants being heavier and having more HD.

In 3e in particular fire giants are very giant dwarf proportioned.

 

[Voadam]

4e had the neat aspect of having large fire giants and huge higher level fire titans with cool primordial/titan/giant lore behind the situation.

They also mostly went with the fire giants as giant dark dwarves aesthetic.

 

[Shiroiken]

One of the issues has been a change from using miniatures to show actual size vs. "controlled area." A purple worm is 5 ft in diameter and 80 ft long, but yet always sits in a 25x25 (?) area. Dragons have similar issues with wingspan and tails. Horses are the opposite problem, being fairly narrow, yet taking up a 10x10 area creating some fat horses. IMO a DM should either use realistically scaled minis that take up appropriate spaces (often requiring some arbitration) or use gamist pog type minis that fit the game rules. I currently use the pog type minis, but I've been using Roll20 for years, where they work better than scaled minis.

 

[see]

(NB: This has been edited.)

The five original D&D giants' heights, by edition:

Original D&D: Hill 12', Stone 15', Frost 18', Fire 12', Cloud 20'.
Holmes: Hill 12', Stone 14', Frost 16', Fire 12', Cloud 18'.
AD&D 1st: Hill 10.5', Stone 12', Frost 15', Fire 12', Cloud 18'.
B/X, BECMI, and Rules Cyclopedia: Hill 12', Stone 14', Frost 18', Fire 16', Cloud 20'.
AD&D 2nd: Hill 16' (Huge), Stone 18' (Huge), Frost 21' (Huge), Fire 18' (Huge), Cloud 24' (Huge).
D&D 3.x: Hill 10.5' (Large), Stone 12' (Large), Frost 15' (Large), Fire 12' (Large), Cloud 18' (Huge).
D&D 5th: Hill 16' (Huge), Stone 18' (Huge), Frost 21' (Huge), Fire 18' (Huge), Cloud 24' (Huge).

5th edition accordingly reverted giant sizes to where they were in 2e, while 3rd had reverted them to 1e, and nobody's used the original-original sizes since 1977.

(In D&D 4th, actual heights of the giants are not given.)

Before 2nd edition the only size category distinctions were "S" (smaller than human-sized), "M," approximately human-sized (with a 4'-7' guideline), and "L," larger than human-sized.
In 2nd edition, "Large" was 7' to 12', while "Huge" was 12' to 25'.
In 3.x, "Large" was 8'-16', while "Huge" was 16'-32'.
In 4th (I believe) and 5th (as best I can tell), creature size categories are abstract measures of the space they control (matching the 3.5 definitions), but with no body measurements given for the categories.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The five original D&D giants' heights, by edition:

Original D&D: Hill 12', Stone 15', Frost 18', Fire 12', Cloud 20'.
Holmes: Hill 12', Stone 14', Frost 16', Fire 12', Cloud 18'.
AD&D 1st: Hill 10.5', Stone 12', Frost 15', Fire 12', Cloud 18'.
B/X, BECMI, and Rules Cyclopedia: Hill 12', Stone 14', Frost 18', Fire 16', Cloud 20'.
AD&D 2nd: Hill 16' (Huge), Stone 18' (Huge), Frost 21' (Huge), Fire 18' (Huge), Cloud 24' (Huge).
D&D 3.x: Hill 10.5' (Large), Stone 12' (Large), Frost 15' (Large), Fire 12' (Large), Cloud 18' (Huge).

Before 2nd edition the only size category distinctions were "S" (smaller than human-sized), "M," approximately human-sized (with a 4'-7' guideline), and "L," larger than human-sized.
In 2nd edition, "Large" was 7' to 12', while "Huge" was 12' to 25'.
In 3.x, "Large" was 8'-16', while "Huge" was 16'-32'.

In 4th and 5th, actual heights of the giants are not given, and the creature size categories are abstract, with no body measurements given for the categories.

The result is that in 5th edition, we do not know whether giants are bigger than they were in AD&D 1st and D&D 3.x, or whether the game's size categories are smaller than they were in 3.x, or possibly both.

We do know, because the the margin by which the smallest giants are bigger than humans grew, and the size categories have minimum measurements.

 

[pukunui]

In 4th and 5th, actual heights of the giants are not given, and the creature size categories are abstract, with no body measurements given for the categories.

The result is that in 5th edition, we do not know whether giants are bigger than they were in AD&D 1st and D&D 3.x, or whether the game's size categories are smaller than they were in 3.x, or possibly both.

Actually, giants are the only creatures in 5e that do get stated heights:

From the 5e MM: