D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

[Maxperson]

A man travels to the city of Ream. There living in the city are the Galaks and the Therens. They hate each other, and there are significant plot points tied to the fact that they hate each other.

But nowhere does it give any reason for that hatred. No hints, no lost history. They just hate each other, because they hate each other.

That's incorrect. There is almost surely a reason why they hate each other. You just do not know that reason. The reason is also almost surely NOT "because they hate each other."

Sound like lazy writing? Or maybe writing for a comedic purpose like they did in Looney Tunes?

It doesn't sound like either to me. A little something would be better, but it's not necessary.

Because as terrible as the reasons can be, no one hates someone else for no reason. So a writer who never creates or gives a reason is not thinking through their characters properly.

Except that there IS a reason. You just don't know it.

 

[Hussar]

Well what's the alternative? To make the non-Tolkien races not weird? The moment they're perceived as mundane, people who want to play spiffy-new-unique-interesting won't want to play them anymore.

And, here we are back to the old saw that only special snowflake players want to play these other races. That people who play Tolkienesque races do so for the deep role playing and everyone else is just doing it wrong.

I thought we were past that.

 

[Hussar]

Oh Hussar...
A tabaxi causing difficulty at a tavern was just one of the many stated reasons why it might be difficult for a DM to just allow a race. The other terms used (for just this one little example) were: distrust, worship, fetishize, etc. Not everything is killed on site. But, as you know, that was one of a list of reasons why the DM might not allow the race.
I get it, you don't agree with the reasons. That's cool. Do what works for your table. Allow other tables to do what is best for them.

Oh Scott...

Talk about missing the point. The point is, the Tolkien races are never subjected to this level of setting antipathy. An elf can walk into any human bar and never worry about it. Why? Because we're chained to the rotting, putrid, stinking corpse of a dead author who wrote a couple of fantasy stories long before any of us were born. It's bloody sad that for such a creative group of people, the notion of change, no matter how slight, is such a bad thing.

 

[Hussar]

/snip
If you think the history of animosity between dwarves and elves is a better use of page space than the songs, then I hope to never read anything you write or edit.
/snip

Y'know, I've read the Lord of the Rings a half a dozen times over the years and I can honestly say that not once have I read any of the songs. As soon as I saw the indent, I just skipped pages.

 

[Hussar]

Ordinary DMs have this INCREDIBLY frustrating tendency to be the most utterly hidebound, traditional, only-the-old-ways types I've ever seen. Pitch a single oddball idea and you get suspicion, questions about ulterior motives, implicit insults, all sorts of things. I've seen FAR too many DMs that, as noted, PROUDLY refuse to step outside of--maybe not "Tolkien's shadow" in the ABSOLUTE MOST STRICTEST POSSIBLE sense, but "Tolkien's extended shadow," the superficial reading of his work that is so commonly invoked it genuinely disheartens me.

This just needed to get quoted for truthiness. Very well said.

 

[Hussar]

Actually, it sounds like Shakespeare.

"Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean."

Theater gets away with a lot more than novel forms. Heck, there's a large chunk of theater (predominantly musicals and opera) that make about as much sense as cardboard hammers if you think about them for more than a minute. But, exploring setting is virtually never the reason for watching theater productions.

 

[Jack Daniel]

And, here we are back to the old saw that only special snowflake players want to play these other races. That people who play Tolkienesque races do so for the deep role playing and everyone else is just doing it wrong.

I thought we were past that.

Strawman.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No. I would use stronger language but that is against the forum rules.

Equating being tired of Tolkien as being tired of the entire genre of Fantasy is blatantly insulting.

Am I tired of "The Journey to the West"? Am I tired of "The Wandering Inn"? Am I tired of "The Dresden Files"? How about "The Codex of Alera" or "The Stormlight Archive" or Slavic myths, Polynesian Myths, Chinese Myths, Japanese Myths, entire subsections of Anime, "Conan"?

If you hear "I'm tired of Tolkien" and think that that person is tired of the entirety of Fantasy, then all you are doing is proving that you truly are chained to the man's corpse. Because fantasy is so much larger than a single writer.



Or they could embrace the literal thousands of other Fantasy sources that aren't Tolkien.

You know, go for a market that is literally overflowing with the same ideas.



But most people limit everything except elves and dwarves, which was the original point being made.

I agree with everything apart from your final point. I haven't come across anyone (not even Tolkien, who had halflings, half elves, aasimar, werebears and half orcs) who limits races to just elves and dwarves.

And woses. Whatever they were.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Strawman.

View attachment 131140

Calling an argument a strawman = "I don't actually have a good counter argument".

The post replied to most definitely implied that anyone who chooses a race other than elf or dwarf is doing so simply to be different. Ergo, not a strawman.

 

[Voadam]

Actually, it sounds like Shakespeare.

"Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean."

Derivative knockoff of Pyramus and Thisbe. Lazy writing.