Marc_C
Solitary Role Playing
Depends of the social contract with the players. With 4e we did 1 level every session. They wanted to get to level 20 sitting on a rocket. 3, 2, 1 lift off!How do you determine X? X = number of sessions.
Depends of the social contract with the players. With 4e we did 1 level every session. They wanted to get to level 20 sitting on a rocket. 3, 2, 1 lift off!How do you determine X? X = number of sessions.
Yes, my experience with "story-based advancement" is that it often feels like you're leveling up whenever the DM feels like it rather than having set a goal and achieved said goal. It's less satisfying to me because achieving a goal I set beforehand is an accomplishment. Milestone XP (which as you know is what people typically call "story-based advancement" is better in that there is a known goal and reward for accomplishing it. Still, for pure Get Stuff Done energy from the players, XP per challenge takes the cake in my experience. Let them loose and the game flies along.Mainly, tying the filling of the progress bar directly to your in-game actions. Watching a progress bar fill up on its own is satisfying. Making a progress bar fill up is significantly more satisfying. If you award XP in batches and don’t specify what the players did to earn it, they get the former effect, but they don’t get the latter. And you can get the former from session-based advancement too.
A side-effect of tying XP awards to in-game actions is that it encourages the players to seek out more ways to perform the actions that they get XP for. They want to make the progress bar fill up, so they will actively try to do more of the thing that they know makes it fill up more. Now, to some, like @Oofta, this may be a negative side-effect (in which case, session-based advancement will probably be more appealing), whereas to me it’s a hugely positive one. As I pointed out in the other post, it is a powerful tool for setting the tone of a campaign.
In theory, story-based advancement ties progress to in-game behaviors, but doesn’t have the bar-filling element. In practice though, it tends to be pretty arbitrary which story-based achievements result in a level increase and which ones don’t. It is, in my opinion, the worst method for character advancement of the three, though it does require the least work on the DM’s part, which I believe is the main reason for its popularity.
The upside to story-based is very much it's ease of use, but it also works best when players are already playing the game in line with the tone of the game. The bar-filling element is pretty minor if you get it for doing the same thing you would have been doing anyways, and getting players to care about the bar itself can take them out of the moment.In theory, story-based advancement ties progress to in-game behaviors, but doesn’t have the bar-filling element. In practice though, it tends to be pretty arbitrary which story-based achievements result in a level increase and which ones don’t. It is, in my opinion, the worst method for character advancement of the three, though it does require the least work on the DM’s part, which I believe is the main reason for its popularity.
Yeah. It’s definitely easier for the DM. But personally, I can’t empathize with wanting to use a method that is less rewarding for the players just to make my own job easier.The upside to story-based is very much it's ease of use,
I disagree. The effect of seeing your actions directly rewarded with progress towards advancement is subtle, but significant. Even if that reward is being given for something you wanted to do anyway, it still triggers that dopamine release. Most people will still have fun without it, but the difference it makes is much greater than most people consciously realize.but it also works best when players are already playing the game in line with the tone of the game. The bar-filling element is pretty minor if you get it for doing the same thing you would have been doing anyways, and getting players to care about the bar itself can take them out of the moment.
This is specifically why I prefer story or milestone or x number of games style xp.I’m not talking about bonus XP for out of game behaviors (or the IMO deplorable practice of giving bonus XP for “good roleplaying”). I’m talking about setting up the XP award structure to encourage certain types of play. XP for encounters encourages a play style where you seek out dangerous challenges. XP for treasure encourages a play style where you try to avoid encounters (because they tax your resources for no direct reward) and prioritize challenges with the lowest risk and highest monetary reward. XP for completing quests encourages a play style where you take on quests for their own sake, regardless of potential monetary reward. XP for new locations discovered encourages a play style where you explore the uncharted sections of the map, but probably don’t return to areas that you’ve already filled in.
And of course, you can mix and match as you like. Since I like my games to be focused on heroic adventurers who take on quests and face deadly dangers, I award XP for encounters and quests completed. For a less heroic, Sword-and-Sorcery style hex crawler campaign, XP for treasure and locations discovered might be more appropriate. What you award XP for can have a big impact on the tone of a campaign.
On the middle point: I've seen it backfire when it's stuff the players were doing anyways. It feels like a sarcastic gold star for showing up to work on time, rather than a reward for doing something good. But maybe that's just "using it badly" as opposed to "it not being useful in this case" - but it can at least be used badly.Yeah. It’s definitely easier for the DM. But personally, I can’t empathize with wanting to use a method that is less rewarding for the players just to make my own job easier.
I disagree. The effect of seeing your actions directly rewarded with progress towards advancement is subtle, but significant. Even if that reward is being given for something you wanted to do anyway, it still triggers that dopamine release. Most people will still have fun without it, but the difference it makes is much greater than most people consciously realize.
I don't know. I dropped XP long ago in an edition far away. Didn't seem to decrease enjoyment at all, in fact my players appreciated getting rid of it since it was a distraction and extra bookkeeping (their words).Yeah. It’s definitely easier for the DM. But personally, I can’t empathize with wanting to use a method that is less rewarding for the players just to make my own job easier.
I disagree. The effect of seeing your actions directly rewarded with progress towards advancement is subtle, but significant. Even if that reward is being given for something you wanted to do anyway, it still triggers that dopamine release. Most people will still have fun without it, but the difference it makes is much greater than most people consciously realize.