Pathfinder 2E How fast are your combats in online play?

[JmanTheDM]

Hey all,

while this may not only apply to Pathfinder, I'm finding the below question more pronounced in Pathfinder.

I've now run about 22 sessions of Pathfinder 2e, 100% of them online. I've used Roll20 for the first 16 sessions and switched over to Fantasy Grounds for these past 6 sessions. Played Fall of Plaguestone first, switched to The Slithering for these past 6 sessions. Game sessions are 4 hours long.

I can only really get 1 combat done per game session. this past Saturday, we extended play by 1.25 hours, where we WERE able to complete 2 combat encounters.

is this normal? I really have no yardstick to measure if this is normal because of online play and being brand new to the Pathfinder (any edition) experience.

Stylistically - if this matters, I tend to be descriptive in my combats "blood splattering here, vines grabbing you and whipping you about..." that sort of thing. I also purposefully ask my players to assist with combat descriptions gm: "describe that killing blow", player "[awesome description that takes like 30 seconds]" this will obviously slow things down.

Also, every player in my group is brand new to PF - so learning the rules and lookups happen quite a bit, and every player (myself included) is new to FG - so learning the interface. each will slow things down as well.

however... all of that being said, and I acknowledge this will be a slower play experience - what is a "typical" PF session like? for typical here, I think one-shot organized play would be a good gauge since they tend to be scheduled for 4 to 5 hours? were I an organized play GM, how many combat encounters would I be expected to run at the table to complete the session?

I think I need to figure out strategies on speeding things up. how do you move things along?

sorry for the wandering post!

cheers,

J.

 

[kenada]

I’ll start with the disclaimer that I never ran official adventures. The only adventure I ran was converted from another system (Winter’s Daughter, from OSE). Combat never took us all that long. I never bothered to time it out, but it almost never dominated the time we spent playing. Of the sessions we played online, most were run in roll20. We now use Foundry, but I have only run a few sessions in it so far.

Stylistically, I tend more towards a narration style more like a war story (edit: or sports announcer) than anything particularly evocative. I also like to weave turns together, so that one turn segues into the next. From what I gather from prior discussions here, my style is a bit idiosyncratic. I also expect it’s not the reason why combat doesn’t take up a lot of time in my sessions.

I don’t really have a good answer for how to speed up official modules. Are you using the initiative trackers and other tools provided by your VTT? Is your group struggling with their difficulty, so they take longer? How many rounds do they last on average? If they’re more than a few rounds (2–4), then something might be off.

 

[JmanTheDM]

Thanks Kenda,

combats typically last no more than 4 rounds. but those 4 rounds normally take on average 2 hours. (5 players + 1 gm, all level 5 PC's right now).

I get the feeling, based on nothing save impressions I have built up over time that a "typical" PF convention game or official module run at home would see maybe 3 combat encounters + exploration + maybe a few skill challenges + some role play between PC's and with NPC's. That would be how I would structure a 5e game (for example) if I were building a one-shot 4 hour session. 3 fights max.

no way I can do this in PF2. and I can't figure out how to speed up my game play.

now, stupid stuff does happen - especially since we switched to FG at the VTT - things like "I accidently closed the battlemap, how do I get that back", or "Oops, I forgot to control-click on the monster", or "how do you ping a location like you can in roll20". this is learning curve, to be expected.

we also do a lot of rule lookups during play - but I've mostly asked a player to do the online searches and copy/pasta the results into chat.

both of these in-game situations I've tried to discount. I know that online VTT play is slower, but I have no calibration from the real Pathfinder Pro's just how much slower. is a 2 fight/night 4 hour play session "typical"? if it is, then I need to speed my play (inside and outside of combat) by maybe 25%.

cheers,

J.

 

[Tyler Pickering]

I use Foundry for my PF2 online play and we can do half dozen simpler combats in 2 hours tops. Two things come to mind why it is taking so long. Roll20 is terrible and Fantasy Grounds is better but still not optimal. The other thing is players and/or GM are just taking too long debating what to do. I'm the forever GM and I can have a monster turn done in 30 seconds or less most times unless there is a spell with multiple saves or something similar. Players I find especially when new get stuck with what to do with one action that is left and take time looking for something meaningful to do. This is my opinion.

If you would ever like to try Foundry feel free to message me and I can show you what I'm talking about.

 

[FrozenNorth]

You’re doing better than we were. It took us 100 hours to complete Fall of Plaguestone, and that was with little meaningful interaction with the NPCs.

 

[Tyler Pickering]

You’re doing better than we were. It took us 100 hours to complete Fall of Plaguestone, and that was with little meaningful interaction with the NPCs.

Try Foundry. Will change your life.

 

[!DWolf]

I don’t play online but for comparison: when playing in person a simple fight can take as little as ten minutes while my extremely elaborate death trap encounters or boss fights can take up to an hour and a half. We play four hours a session and my games have four to six players.

If you can, you might try recording a session and then going back and timing things to see what actually is taking up the time - 2 hour fights seem really long.

 

[JmanTheDM]

You’re doing better than we were. It took us 100 hours to complete Fall of Plaguestone, and that was with little meaningful interaction with the NPCs.

WOW! and I don't mean that negatively one bit.

we can do half dozen simpler combats in 2 hours tops.

Can't even imagine how to do that. I don't think my speed "issues" is strictly constrained to the VTT, but I cannot see me and my players being able to pick up the pace that much. This saturday (to not give away too much spoilers), there was a magically summoned creature Trap, which once the trap was figured out and counteracted the "fight" ended. this took 1 hour. We then had approx 1 hour of exploration, healing, opening a few doors, checking out a few rooms, finding a secret and scouting to setup the next fight. then 2 hours of this next fight with 2 level 7 creatures (a severe fight).

wow!

Players I find especially when new get stuck with what to do with one action that is left and take time looking for something meaningful to do.

there is certainly some of that going on. I do encourage tactical play at the table, so I could be an enabler.

If you can, you might try recording a session and then going back and timing things to see what actually is taking up the time - 2 hour fights seem really long.

not a half bad idea! may figure out how to do this. we use Discord for our voice chat when online.

when playing in person a simple fight can take as little as ten minutes while my extremely elaborate death trap encounters or boss fights can take up to an hour and a half. We play four hours a session and my games have four to six players.

so you would have maybe 3 "fights" a night on average? (on those nights that are particularly fighty?)

cheers,

J.

 

[Tyler Pickering]

WOW! and I don't mean that negatively one bit.


Can't even imagine how to do that. I don't think my speed "issues" is strictly constrained to the VTT, but I cannot see me and my players being able to pick up the pace that much. This saturday (to not give away too much spoilers), there was a magically summoned creature Trap, which once the trap was figured out and counteracted the "fight" ended. this took 1 hour. We then had approx 1 hour of exploration, healing, opening a few doors, checking out a few rooms, finding a secret and scouting to setup the next fight. then 2 hours of this next fight with 2 level 7 creatures (a severe fight).

wow!

there is certainly some of that going on. I do encourage tactical play at the table, so I could be an enabler.


not a half bad idea! may figure out how to do this. we use Discord for our voice chat when online.

so you would have maybe 3 "fights" a night on average? (on those nights that are particularly fighty?)

cheers,

J.

The higher level you are playing the longer it takes. Trust me on the VTT Issue though. I switched from Roll20 to Foundry and could never go back after trying it. Offer is always open to show you.

Compex hazards can take a few rounds to disable but without seeing actual play from your group it’s hard to know for sure where the problems are.

I’d recommend what the above person mentioned and do a recap video if you can.

 

[!DWolf]

so you would have maybe 3 "fights" a night on average? (on those nights that are particularly fighty?)

If it helps, the last three sessions of my jungle game:

1st) The entire session was a skirmishers in intricate spaces fight. It had a haunt, three fights with a couple monsters each, the Snake Temple (see the Handbook of Hazards thread if you want the gritty details, but basically an infinite number of summoned creatures and a monster with a lure ability) and then a very challenging boss fight with a boss multiple minions and a hazard. Took a little over four hours.

2nd) There was a lot of looting and outfitting and figuring things out, a magic ritual to be performed, a fight with a giant shark (1 round as they managed to get out of the water), a role play scene with a mephit, a ‘fight’ with a giant sea urchin (it was mostly them figuring out how to get around it, then succeeding), the Snakes Gullet encounter from the handbook, followed immediately by a level 5 monster, followed by them exploring a temple, and then the Blood Pool encounter. This session took about 4.5 hours.

3rd) A mixed social/boss fight in the temple. Then a lot of role play as we finished the book, followed by leveling up and shopping (after being stuck on an island my players were excited to shop!) and more role play. Took 4 hours but an hour of that was leveling up and shopping.

Also: This is sort of like making sure the computer is plugged in but you might also check your players builds. Make sure they didn’t forgot the four free attribute boosts and that they have the appropriate magical gear (striking runes, etc.).