D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Mind of tempest]

Halflings are the blue-eyed boy of the noble houses, good citizens and as taxpayers the goose of golden eggs, not causing troubles. They are wellcome in the safe feuds where nobility don't allow attacks by raiders. They are relatively polite and submissive. If they don't like a zone they go away to a better zone, maybe a dwarf or an elf realm. Halflings as subjects are signs of prestige among the aristocracy.

I guess for the point of view by the most of halflings the adventures are almost crazy adrelaline addicts or fool thrill-seekers.

Other matter is if they live in dangerous zones of failed states, where are more unprotected/vulnerable against the occasional new warlord. Then a underground tunnels and refugess net may be a mortal traps for taller attackers.

I do not believe we have any of the first bit in the lore, the middle bit is likely.

 

[Maxperson]

I have not seen slings listed as a weapon in 5e secondly most fiends are immune to none magic weapons and a halfling villager has what 4 hp most fiends do that per round so it would still wipe out the village.

None(or almost none, I didn't look at all) of them are immune to non-magical weapons. Even Balors and Pit Fiends are only resistant to them. That means that the halfling village will be doing 1/2 damage or even full damage, since many lower level fiends take full damage, to the attacking fiend. On top of that, since they are all lucky, there will be abnormal amount of critical hits.

 

[Mind of tempest]

new conclusion halflings are some kind of aberration as they make as much sense as tom bombadil at this point.

 

[Chaosmancer]

What's the point of dwarves, they're just short Scottish blacksmiths!

Sort of asking a different question though.

If Halflings are simply nothing more than short, human farmers who live in human kingdoms, protected by human armies, and following human laws... then why not just make them human?

But dwarves may just be stereotypically scottish blacksmiths and miners, but they are an entire kingdom of scottish blacksmiths and miners. They have their own laws, their own government, their own armies. Take away humans, and dwarves can still exist on their own.

Take away humans when you have set up that Halflings rely on humans for protection, and suddenly the halflings can't exist on their own.

 

[Chaosmancer]

None of that follows, at all. You’re jumping ina totally random direction.

Like, you gotta be able to see that there no contradiction between “avoid notice” and “train to fight and...literally have weaponry in your town”, right?

Do you know why martial arts developed so heavily in the East? Do you know why many Ninja weapons were modified tools, like spades and sickles?

Because the governments over there forbade the use of weapons by the people, so to defend themselves they had to adapt. Those people saw the ability of the farmers and monks to defend themselves as a threat to their governments.

And a five second Google search shows me that similar policies were enacted in some European states.


So, imagine you are a human lord. Next to your lands is a halfling Shire. They aren't your people, not officially, but you notice they do have a large stockpile of weapons, armor, and have been training in the use of them. That isn't avoiding notice or avoiding offense like the PHB says. That is setting up fairly declaratively, "this is our land, and we will fight to protect it"

Consider the history of humanity. How long do you think it takes before some noble gets it in his head that it is better to strike first and conquer the halflings before they decide to expand their land? Plus, bonus, they have fertile farmland that can make him richer. Double Bonus, they are smaller and weaker than humans (in his mind) and should be easy to beat with a surprise attack.

Yes, I'm making assumptions. But these assumptions are based on seeing the most likely routes of history.

And , if you'd prefer to have hardened halfling warriors with heavy armor and crossbows and a strong military.... well then, you need to figure out how to square that with "agrarian farmers who spend most of their time relaxing, enjoying good food and good company"

 

[Voadam]

I meant that in LOTR,the most numerous were the shortest tribe but opposite in D&D.

Even so according to Wikipedia the average LotR hobbit height is 3' 6" while D&D halflings are generally (Basic, 1e-3e, and 5e) shorter at 3'.

In the 5e PH it says that Lightfoots are the most common and that in Greyhawk the Lightfoots are called Hairfeet or Tallfellows, which in prior editions used to be two separate subraces. In the 1e MM the Hairfeet were the most common halflings at 3' and the taller 4' Tallfellows were "very rare".

 

[Voadam]

If Halflings are simply nothing more than short, human farmers who live in human kingdoms, protected by human armies, and following human laws... then why not just make them human?

According to the 5e PH it is not just human kingdoms and it is not just farmers.

From the 5e PH:

Though some halflings live out their days in remote agricultural communities, others form nomadic bands that travel constantly, lured by the open road and the wide horizon to discover the wonders of new lands and peoples. But even these wanderers love peace, food, hearth, and home, though home might be a wagon jostling along an dirt road or a raft floating downriver.

Halflings are adept at fitting into a community of humans, dwarves, or elves, making themselves valuable and welcome.

Most halflings live in small, peaceful communities with large farms and well-kept groves. They rarely build kingdoms of their own or even hold much land beyond their quiet shires. They typically don’t recognize any sort of halfling nobility or royalty, instead looking to family elders to guide them. Families preserve their traditional ways despite the rise and fall of empires.
Many halflings live among other races, where the halflings’ hard work and loyal outlook offer them abundant rewards and creature comforts. Some halfling communities travel as a way of life, driving wagons or guiding boats from place to place and maintaining no permanent home.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's not world design at all. It's game play. Monsters are rare or the PC races of the world are dead. PCs see a lot of them, because fun. It would be boring if there were nothing much to encounter and fight, so they see an abnormal number of monsters.

You are playing in a world. The world needs to exist and make sense or you really can't play the game.

Saying that monsters have to be rare or everyone would die can make some sense... but then makes you wonder why they exist in enough numbers to be the types of threats PCs fight all the time.

I mean, no one enters a Dungeon in this game and expects it to be empty. No one travels through the woods or mountains of their game world and expect to encounter nothing. But if monsters were truly rare, then they would actually expect there to be nothing. You can't world build and just say "well, threats are rare unless the PCs are nearby, then they are common" because that is not how world's work.

Ankhegs don't have hives and come by the thousands. There are very few at a time. And ants don't destroy towns, so why would something based on them?

Ants don't destroy towns because they are tiny, inch long at most. Ankhegs are the size of horses.

And how many do you think you need to destroy a town? Their acid spit is death for commoners, and at a 30 ft line is likely to hit a few. Plus they burrow and come up from underneath, and each attack from their bite is also death. HAve a cluster of six make a town their hunting grounds, and that town is dead unless they can hire people to track down the monsters and kill them.

I've never seen an empire by any of those races. Drow and Yuan-Ti make their homes away from PC race civilization, and Hobgoblins would live in the wild, so away from most of civilization

All three are famous for empire building, and it is listed in their lore. And all three are commonly known as slavers. Can't get human slaves if you don't attack human population centers, not in the numbers these races utilize.

Drow leading raids on the surface is actually specifically called out in their lore entry.

Cool. There aren't 3 just wandering around, though. There's probably not even 1 wandering around.

Because somehow being specifically summoned to slaughter a village somehow makes them less of a threat than them wandering through the wilds?

I think you are overestimating how many monsters are in the world. Perhaps because there are lots of monster books. If monsters were as common as you are making out, there would be no civilization left.

That is one assumption you can make. But it is not an assumption supported by anything in the texts. Far more likely is that there are a lot more defenses, guards, and powerful people in the world to protect civilizations. Most towns would have a dedicated and trained guard force, defenses built to help protect them from the more common threats of their area.

No, it really isn't. It's not "full" of them at all. They have to be very rare near civilization in order for civilization to have survived.

Again, that is your assumption. It is not supported.

 

[Oofta]

According to the 5e PH it is not just human kingdoms and it is not just farmers.

From the 5e PH:

People are assuming that since they are not interested in conquest or kingdoms that they are defenseless and/or must be protected by others.

I don't think that makes any sense any more than halflings don't try to defend themselves through brute strength.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Since when?

Since people brought up Phandalin? Since we've been discussing how a place like that, two days from the nearest friendly government but right next to multiple wild places filled with dangerous enemies would need some sort of defenses to survive?