D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Chaosmancer]

You're positing a world where the only way to survive is to retreat behind stone walls every night no matter if you live on the edge of the wilderness or in the middle of an otherwise stable and wealthy kingdom. One where if you stay out at night you'll be eaten by hungry monsters that for some reason ignore livestock and, even though they are obviously starving won't hunt during the day. A world where an orcish horde can invade at any moment, but they leave crops alone. One where halflings (because they are not elves or dwarves) are left defenseless.

Of course the hungry monster eats the livestock. What does it eat next though? What, you think a monster that eats a few pigs will never get hungry again?

The point isn't that everyone will die if they are out at night, but that the world is incredibly dangerous, dangerous enough that not having a proper defense plan in place does not make sense.

Do orcish armies invade? Yes. Same way that armies have invaded for millennia. Do all commoners in your world retreat behind stone walls every night? Well, then the halflings will probably be right there with them. In my campaign, in any campaign I've ever been involved with, there has been the assumption that many commoners live in the countryside. They might have simple fences to keep wild animals out of the barn and a bar across the door at night, but that's it.

If halflings don't work in you world, fine. From every campaign I've actually played in real life it's a pretty atypical one unless you're talking video games ... but that's a different story. Most video games have a silly concentration of monsters simply because of the nature of travelling from point A to point B and expectations of not travelling for a day or two (or longer) with nothing to do.

There are too many threats in DnD. Too many things that are too big and too dangerous. And halflings could survive and defend themselves. But not as presented. As presented they are even less well defended than the humans, and the humans stretch believabilty. But everyone just keeps insisting that the problem is me.

 

[tetrasodium]

No, we blame that on the "kender."

That's right! There's a kender! He ran around that corner just now! GO GET HIM!

Too late it apparently was struck by lightning several times before a volcano spontaneously appeared in the sky above the charred corpse to entomb it in magma

 

[Maxperson]

I already read it repeatedly. Nowhere did you mention how safe they were from monster attacks. You simply said that adventurers would be in the locations.

Here, I'll just take one of them.

"Dwarves on the other hand tend to stay in Dwarven mountain cities where they can delve for ore and gems. Some of those cities open up to the Underdark which exposes them to threats from beneath, and of course there are external mountain entrances. However, God help any monster or force that tries a frontal assault on a Dwarven hold. They'll deserve what they are going to get. Less than humans, Dwarves would also have expeditionary forces that may set up small mining outposts. Those would be far more at risk. I think they would also have active and/or retired fighting types and maybe some clerics."


So, no mention of towns or villages, only cities and mining outposts. That is in the green.

You then say that holds are safe, with the text in orange.

No. Wrong. I'll re-bold. And yet you told me I said all of them were safe. Read until you understand.

 

[Oofta]

Of course the hungry monster eats the livestock. What does it eat next though? What, you think a monster that eats a few pigs will never get hungry again?

The point isn't that everyone will die if they are out at night, but that the world is incredibly dangerous, dangerous enough that not having a proper defense plan in place does not make sense.

But you're saying that for some reason halflings are defenseless. Even though, apparently human commoners are more than capable? As impractical as it would be for the human farmers to retreat behind walls at night or be killed if they did have to I'm assuming they can't also bring their livestock. That means that either the farmers don't need to huddle nightly behind the walls or there is little or no surviving livestock.

So if human commoners can defend themselves adequately then I see no reason halfling commoners could not also defend themselves. Nothing says they can't. They may or may not be slightly less capable of defending themselves but on average they are basically as strong as humans, probably slightly more dextrous and lucky.

There are only so many options

• All human commoners (and halfling commoners for that matter) huddle behind stone walls at night cowering in fear and there are few (or no) surviving livestock.
• Commoners of all races do not need to defend themselves constantly in many if not most areas.
• Commoners of all races are reasonably competent at defending themselves against the majority of threats that they face. Sometimes they have to flee.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I guess you can have fun in worlds without monsters or threats, like the other side seems to be insisting is reality in DnD.

This is some sort of weird opposite day because this would be the line I would be expecting @Maxperson to be saying to someone else!

You do understand there is a LARGE gap between a village that gets attacked once in a generation and a village that is under daily threat of overrun and massacre, right?

It would be difficult, for me, to find my world making any sort of sense if there were just random beasts roaming every square inch of the continent constantly hunting randomly for food/slaves/slaughter/prestige. That is kind of the point of considering where you live to be "civilization" as opposed to "the wild".

I don't want to play "Day of the Dead" where you have to send some poor schlub outside the bunker to make a mad dash to get some water only to get eaten by a manticore or hydra randomly. That isn't the way my world works. It might make for an interesting campaign (I think Midnight was a setting like this?) but that isn't D&D.

 

[Maxperson]

This is some sort of weird opposite day because this would be the line I would be expecting @Maxperson to be saying to someone else!

You do understand there is a LARGE gap between a village that gets attacked once in a generation and a village that is under daily threat of overrun and massacre, right?

It would be difficult, for me, to find my world making any sort of sense if there were just random beasts roaming every square inch of the continent constantly hunting randomly for food/slaves/slaughter/prestige. That is kind of the point of considering where you live to be "civilization" as opposed to "the wild".

I don't want to play "Day of the Dead" where you have to send some poor schlub outside the bunker to make a mad dash to get some water only to get eaten by a manticore or hydra randomly. That isn't the way my world works. It might make for an interesting campaign (I think Midnight was a setting like this?) but that isn't D&D.

I was with you until the end. It can be D&D if people want to play that way. D&D is very flexible and can be lots of different things.

 

[Minigiant]

But you're saying that for some reason halflings are defenseless. Even though, apparently human commoners are more than capable? As impractical as it would be for the human farmers to retreat behind walls at night or be killed if they did have to I'm assuming they can't also bring their livestock. That means that either the farmers don't need to huddle nightly behind the walls or there is little or no surviving livestock.

So if human commoners can defend themselves adequately then I see no reason halfling commoners could not also defend themselves. Nothing says they can't. They may or may not be slightly less capable of defending themselves but on average they are basically as strong as humans, probably slightly more dextrous and lucky.

There are only so many options

• All human commoners (and halfling commoners for that matter) huddle behind stone walls at night cowering in fear and there are few (or no) surviving livestock.
• Commoners of all races do not need to defend themselves constantly in many if not most areas.
• Commoners of all races are reasonably competent at defending themselves against the majority of threats that they face. Sometimes they have to flee.

I think the idea is that humans, dwarves, and elves have government systems designed to provide a moderate level of security for the commoners.

The local human lord has knights and men at arms ready, hires mayors to organize militia, pays rangers and scouts to watch the border, serves their liege for additional protection,and keeps a mage or learned man in his court. You know fantasy feudalism.

Halflings as written in the books lack all that besides maybe a militia. This makes them written differenntly than the other core races. Different isn't bad. But different is different. So halflings would need a "different explanation for survival".

And typically it's the uncommon, rare, and monstrous races that rely on "different explanations of survival". This puts halflings in a weird position.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think the idea is that humans, dwarves, and elves have government systems designed to provide a moderate level of security for the commoners.

The local human lord has knights and men at arms ready, hires mayors to organize militia, pays rangers and scouts to watch the border, serves their liege for additional protection,and keeps a mage or learned man in his court. You know fantasy feudalism.

Halflings as written in the books lack all that besides maybe a militia. This makes them written differenntly than the other core races. Different isn't bad. But different is different. So halflings would need a "different explanation for survival".

And typically it's the uncommon, rare, and monstrous races that rely on "different explanations of survival". This puts halflings in a weird position.

The local human lord has most of the costs already sunk & could add a few more in the ranks to cover including that halfling village over the creek for less than is gained in taxes from that halfling village as well. The halfling village gets all of those benefits as well & the benefits easily outweigh the costs

 

[Charlaquin]

I think the idea is that humans, dwarves, and elves have government systems designed to provide a moderate level of security for the commoners.

The local human lord has knights and men at arms ready, hires mayors to organize militia, pays rangers and scouts to watch the border, serves their liege for additional protection,and keeps a mage or learned man in his court. You know fantasy feudalism.

Halflings as written in the books lack all that besides maybe a militia.

Assuming we’re talking about a group of halflings living in a racially homogeneous community rather than among humans, elves, and/or dwarves (which I don’t think is an assumption borne out by the fiction, but for the sake of argument I’ll grant that assumption)...

Halflings may not necessarily have standing armies, but it’s well established that halflings’ love for their communities would lead halfling villagers to defend their communities in times of need, that stories told by halfling adventurers inspire their homebody kin to rise to similar challenges, and that their good luck helps even the playing field against better trained and armed opponents. They certainly have mayors, or at least unofficial community leaders. Maybe they don’t have scouts watching the border, but they may have neighborhood watches, or at the very least gossipmongers who act as an early warning system to the community when strange folk come poking around. Additionally, I don’t see support for the idea that halflings wouldn’t have magic users or learned folk in their communities. Maybe a wise elder like the High Aldwin from Willow would be more on-brand for halflings than a court wizard, but the idea that they wouldn’t have any magic in their communities is silly to me.

This makes them written differenntly than the other core races.

As well they should be.

Different isn't bad. But different is different. So halflings would need a "different explanation for survival".

Everyone needs a different explanation for survival. Elves don’t protect their communities the same way as dwarves, who don’t protect their communities the same way as humans. And, again, I think the norm in D&D, at least these days, is racially diverse communities.

And typically it's the uncommon, rare, and monstrous racesthat rely on "different explanations of survival".

Citation needed.

 

[Minigiant]

Assuming we’re talking about a group of halflings living in a racially homogeneous community rather than among humans, elves, and/or dwarves (which I don’t think is an assumption borne out by the fiction, but for the sake of argument I’ll grant that assumption)...

Halflings may not necessarily have standing armies, but it’s well established that halflings’ love for their communities would lead halfling villagers to defend their communities in times of need, that stories told by halfling adventurers inspire their homebody kin to rise to similar challenges, and that their good luck helps even the playing field against better trained and armed opponents. They certainly have mayors, or at least unofficial community leaders. Maybe they don’t have scouts watching the border, but they may have neighborhood watches, or at the very least gossipmongers who act as an early warning system to the community when strange folk come poking around. Additionally, I don’t see support for the idea that halflings wouldn’t have magic users or learned folk in their communities. Maybe a wise elder like the High Aldwin from Willow would be more on-brand for halflings than a court wizard, but the idea that they wouldn’t have any magic in their communities is silly to me.

It's all luck though.
I'm fine with it being all luck but few want to be honest about it
Gossipers aren't scouts. Peasents playing games isn't a defence force. Voluntary neighborhood watches aren't town guard. And halflings aren't rolling in cash to hire any of these nor would they if they did.
And if AD&D books and OSR are concerned, halflings don't have wizards in their towns and barely have clerics.
It's all luck. Which is fine.

Everyone needs a different explanation for survival. Elves don’t protect their communities the same way as dwarves, who don’t protect their communities the same way as humans. And, again, I think the norm in D&D, at least these days, is racially diverse communities.

It's the same one really. Making quallity and possibly magical arms, training armies, spellcasters, and elite warriors, and foightin'

Citation needed.

Gobliniods and orcs have some make babies, they are hard to snuff out.
Miniotaurs are really big.
Giants are REALLY REALLY big.
Gnome towns are invisible. Like real invisible.
Kobolds suck up to something really powerful
Tieflings live with humans
Tritons live in the "hard to invade" underwaters.

"We are so lucky, bad dudes only see our village once every 20 years" sounds like something you'd read in the MM.
Not bad lore but very monstery lore.