D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[JiffyPopTart]

Well my experience must be different.

Because I've dealt with chains of ruling nobles/knights/priests/mages/druids/officials created by many DMs. And these chains of power are what keep the commonfolk safe when the adventurers aren't there. The adventurers in turn may jump into dungeons and die. However should they survive, the political and military powers give them quests of many colors. There were swords and spears everywhere. A quest was when for one reason or another, some local power could not send their own men.

I've typically only seen single independent small towns in the wilderness, as colonies, or heavily fortified with muscle, magic, or money. Or in points of light like settings when organization that level is near impossible.

So if the PCs looked up, there was always someone bigger looking down until very high levels

The "introduction" adventure to 5e, Lost Mines of Phandelver, gives us a fairly basic "little town in Faerun" to set the story in. This is the synopsis of the town and its history according to the internet. This is setting up the expectation to someone new to D&D what the world is like they are adventuring in.

Entry for Phandalin
Phandalin was originally a farming community. However, when the orc of the realm of Uruth Ukrypt had destroyed all game in their realm, they went in search of food and turned on the human settlements in the area, raiding them. Phandalin was one of these settlements, and in 951 DR, it was overrun and then abandoned.

After Volothamp Geddarm passed through the town and wrote about it, the area experienced an influx of tourists and adventurers.

Sometime in the 1400s DR, settlers from Neverwinter and Waterdeep resettled the ruins of Phandalin, and it was well-established by 1491 DR.

In the 15th century DR, a group of bandits known as the Redbrands, or the Redbrand Ruffians, settled in Phandalin, and made their lair under Tresendar Manor. They committed several terrible acts, such as racketing local businesses, kidnapping over a dozen travellers and selling them into slavery, killing the woodcarver, Thel Dendrar, for his defiance, and later kidnapping his family.

Phandalin had no functioning government, but the townsfolk annually elected a "townsmaster". The townsmaster would serve as a judge and mediator, and also kept the records that needed to be kept.
End

-There are no defensive works despite being in the "monster ravaged" areas of the Sword Coast.
-In the entire history of the town there have been two major security issues...a TPK from orcs and some bandits that have killed one townsperson and kidnapped their family.
-They have no protection from some far away nobility.
-There is no "baron", "duke", "lord", "king" or any other sort of nobility responsible for the town.
-They have no apparent ties to other towns/cities other than as trading partners.

This is how 5e sees a small town. If you picture your small towns being something different than this, that's fine, but you are picturing something other than the 5e baseline that the starter set is laying down.

 

[Chaosmancer]

First, are you done or not? Saying you're done and then continuing to quote me sends very mixed messages.

Second, Tritons are not fish and are closer to primates than not.

Third, if you are going to argue realism to this degree, why are you not arguing for Tritons, who you argued survive the great pressures of the deep oceans, to die in the low pressures at the surface?

I am done trying to convince you on halflings, but I find the Triton thing interesting. I didn't know Fish needed Vitamin C. And when I found the answer, I found it interesting enough to share.

Even if Tritons do need to consume Vitamin C, like I said, they can get enough to prevent scurvy by eating a lot of raw fish. Which, as an aquatic race, is likely their main source of food anyways.

As for the pressure issue, it would depend on some factors. I know sperm whales can dive as deep as 2,000 meters and surface fairly rapidly, because of reinforced structures in their lungs and relying on massive stores of oxygen in their blood instead of their lungs while that deep.

It could be assumed that Tritons have similar adaptions, and are more comfortable in more shallow waters, but can easily travel far deeper and survive the intense pressure without special equipment.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Instead of saying "it's fantasy, it doesn't have to make sense", you say "it's fantasy, it's a magical variety of rice that doesn't require as much water and halfling magic helps support it." Seriously, this isn't hard.

And if the players really want to dig into the world-building implications of magical rice, more power to them, you have a new avenue of your game to explore.

See but you've done something that has farther reaching consequences. What halfling magic allows them to grow crops with less water, can they teach it? Can they share it?

Like you said, the players can dig into this, but that also means I need to know these answers. I need to figure out how this magical rice is grown, is the plant actually magical? Can it grow in areas that have low magic?

This is a far more in-depth approach than "They can just grow it, no one cares"

And, if I don't homebrew magical rice that doesn't need water... then I shouldn't have rice in the desert. Or peppercorn outside of the tropics.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Brave words.

Wrong ones, but brave ones.

Honestly I've been "Ditch halflings already" for decades but Dungeon Meshi of all things has turned me around on them. This is because Dungeon Meshi is good.

I still have not read Dungeon Meshi. I really need to make time to get around to that

 

[Minigiant]

But I don't see what has to do with the topic, other than you are assuming that the way you play is universal which seems to be an ongoing theme around here.

My point is that halflings get to buck many of the base systems and assumptionss that D&D uses to justify the existence and prevalence of adventurers and no real explanation is often given at the introduction of the race.

So it forces fans to willfully not think about it or create excuses that the other races of equal or lesser importance do not need.

 

[TwoSix]

See but you've done something that has farther reaching consequences. What halfling magic allows them to grow crops with less water, can they teach it? Can they share it?

Like you said, the players can dig into this, but that also means I need to know these answers. I need to figure out how this magical rice is grown, is the plant actually magical? Can it grow in areas that have low magic?

You improv, the most important skill of DMing.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

See but you've done something that has farther reaching consequences. What halfling magic allows them to grow crops with less water, can they teach it? Can they share it?

Like you said, the players can dig into this, but that also means I need to know these answers. I need to figure out how this magical rice is grown, is the plant actually magical? Can it grow in areas that have low magic?

This is a far more in-depth approach than "They can just grow it, no one cares"

And, if I don't homebrew magical rice that doesn't need water... then I shouldn't have rice in the desert. Or peppercorn outside of the tropics.

I issue a challenge. Grab a stopwatch. Figure out how long it takes you to come up with a reasonable fits-in-your-world answer as to how halflings grow most of the spices they need for cooking in their own little farming village. Let us know how long it took you.

I did it myself. 12 seconds (took longer to type it up than think of it). A long time ago a friendly druid named Randalph passed by and gave a village of halflings a gift of a "Spice Bush". This little shrub grows all year round and each "pod" generates a random seasoning. While the pods generate a great amount of variety in the halflings spice cabinet, the randomness of the pods and great upkeep require to keep the plants alive makes the "Spice Bush" more of a family heirloom and less of an industrial crop.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The "introduction" adventure to 5e, Lost Mines of Phandelver, gives us a fairly basic "little town in Faerun" to set the story in. This is the synopsis of the town and its history according to the internet. This is setting up the expectation to someone new to D&D what the world is like they are adventuring in.

Entry for Phandalin
Phandalin was originally a farming community. However, when the orc of the realm of Uruth Ukrypt had destroyed all game in their realm, they went in search of food and turned on the human settlements in the area, raiding them. Phandalin was one of these settlements, and in 951 DR, it was overrun and then abandoned.

After Volothamp Geddarm passed through the town and wrote about it, the area experienced an influx of tourists and adventurers.

Sometime in the 1400s DR, settlers from Neverwinter and Waterdeep resettled the ruins of Phandalin, and it was well-established by 1491 DR.

In the 15th century DR, a group of bandits known as the Redbrands, or the Redbrand Ruffians, settled in Phandalin, and made their lair under Tresendar Manor. They committed several terrible acts, such as racketing local businesses, kidnapping over a dozen travellers and selling them into slavery, killing the woodcarver, Thel Dendrar, for his defiance, and later kidnapping his family.

Phandalin had no functioning government, but the townsfolk annually elected a "townsmaster". The townsmaster would serve as a judge and mediator, and also kept the records that needed to be kept.
End

-There are no defensive works despite being in the "monster ravaged" areas of the Sword Coast.
-In the entire history of the town there have been two major security issues...a TPK from orcs and some bandits that have killed one townsperson and kidnapped their family.
-They have no protection from some far away nobility.
-There is no "baron", "duke", "lord", "king" or any other sort of nobility responsible for the town.
-They have no apparent ties to other towns/cities other than as trading partners.

This is how 5e sees a small town. If you picture your small towns being something different than this, that's fine, but you are picturing something other than the 5e baseline that the starter set is laying down.

Overrun in 951 and abandoned.

Firmly reestablished by 1491... 540 years of it being basically an abandoned ghost town where no one lived. All because of one "major security issue"

You are basically talking about an area abandoned since (in our time) 1481 AD

Think about that a little longer. That area was unsettled for longer than most modern countries have been around. In fact, if we go 540 years into our past, it is right around the end of the Hundred years war. The Ottoman Empire is still vibrant and fresh, the crusades are finishing up. It is the Rennaissance.

And not ten years later it is run by a gang and needs rescuing again as a goblin tribe is also moving into the area.

"Security issues" doesn't even begin to cover it. Also, if it was established by Neverwinter and Waterdeep... think maybe they were expecting trade? Or do powerful city-states just settle land for giggles and then abandon them. Well, I guess they did since the Red Brands took over, but most places tend to see their colonies as something to trade with an monitor,

 

[Chaosmancer]

You improv, the most important skill of DMing.

Or you could world build. The other most important skill of DMing.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I issue a challenge. Grab a stopwatch. Figure out how long it takes you to come up with a reasonable fits-in-your-world answer as to how halflings grow most of the spices they need for cooking in their own little farming village. Let us know how long it took you.

I did it myself. 12 seconds (took longer to type it up than think of it). A long time ago a friendly druid named Randalph passed by and gave a village of halflings a gift of a "Spice Bush". This little shrub grows all year round and each "pod" generates a random seasoning. While the pods generate a great amount of variety in the halflings spice cabinet, the randomness of the pods and great upkeep require to keep the plants alive makes the "Spice Bush" more of a family heirloom and less of an industrial crop.

Great, that is wonderful.

A homebrew solution for a single village.

How does that apply to the rest of the entire race of halflings? Did Randalph visit every single Shire? Obviously not.

But, I do have a solution that can fit every single halfling village. They trade for spices, just like the humans. Of course, trading means they are part of the wider world. And the wider world is dangerous, so they will need to have some form of defense against monster attacks.

I can homebrew that too. Didn't take me long. Of course, it is homebrew, which was kind of my point