D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[tetrasodium]

The town land is granted by a noble.
You do the quest for the mayor and he sets you up with a meeting with the lord.

You complete some quests for the lord and they set you up with meetings with the next guy up. And so on, until you get a royal audience.

I too have had this sort of chain happen fairly regularly both as dm & player. Using it means that the guy the PCs are trying to squeeze for more can throw up their hands and admit they literally don't have the clout to give the players what they are trying to diplomancy/intimidate for while still having someone who can be used in meetings as the players advance to bigger & badder threats without needing to throw out all of the "local*" worldbuilding & contacts. Personally I'm a bit surprised at the people saying they don't do this sort of thing since it works well both for allies & villians.

* Local is relative & could be anything from one district in a huge city like sharn growing into more of sharn to an entire region growing into more of the region & even other neighboring regions.

 

[Minigiant]

I too have had this sort of chain happen fairly regularly both as dm & player. Using it means that the guy the PCs are trying to squeeze for more can throw up their hands and admit they literally don't have the clout to give the players what they are trying to diplomancy/intimidate for while still having someone who can be used in meetings as the players advance to bigger & badder threats without needing to throw out all of the "local*" worldbuilding & contacts. Personally I'm a bit surprised at the people saying they don't do this sort of thing since it works well both for allies & villians.

* Local is relative & could be anything from one district in a huge city like sharn growing into more of sharn to an entire region growing into more of the region & even other neighboring regions.

4e and 5e even codify the idea in their rules as tiers. As PCs hit the next tier, the NPCs introduce you to their bosses, supporters, and patrons to match the higher tier threats you will face.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Well my experience must be different.

Because I've dealt with chains of ruling nobles/knights/priests/mages/druids/officials created by many DMs. And these chains of power are what keep the commonfolk safe when the adventurers aren't there. The adventurers in turn may jump into dungeons and die. However should they survive, the political and military powers give them quests of many colors. There were swords and spears everywhere. A quest was when for one reason or another, some local power could not send their own men.

I've typically only seen single independent small towns in the wilderness, as colonies, or heavily fortified with muscle, magic, or money. Or in points of light like settings when organization that level is near impossible.

So if the PCs looked up, there was always someone bigger looking down until very high levels

I have also always had PCs being less than the biggest fish until very high level, but never by way of a feudal power chain. Especially since the High King might well be just a guy, using basically the Noble stats with some additional proficiencies. The ease with which his Captain At Arms could merc him at any moment is laughable, but he is still the King to which petty Kings pay tribute and send their best sons and daughters to train and make connections in his court.

Now, some of those petty Kings might be feudal, but the High King really isn’t, beyond having vassal states, and even then he is only the High King of a region, and his closest external ally is a culture of Fey-related folk who govern in a system of clan elders, consular-priests (many of whom are Ancients Paladins), and then the overarching authority of the Althing, at which any citizen of the land may speak.
A more contentious relation is held with the 9 Kings of Cardan and their Three Fates, who are sister-priestesses chosen before birth, always born under certain signs, always triplets, etc.

 

[Maxperson]

4e and 5e even codify the idea in their rules as tiers. As PCs hit the next tier, the NPCs introduce you to their bosses, supporters, and patrons to match the higher tier threats you will face.

They do, but not in a feudal sense. It's just the idea that a local mayor isn't typically going to have an adventure that will be of interest or challenge for a 16th level group, where a king might.

 

[Oofta]

Well my experience must be different.

Because I've dealt with chains of ruling nobles/knights/priests/mages/druids/officials created by many DMs. And these chains of power are what keep the commonfolk safe when the adventurers aren't there. The adventurers in turn may jump into dungeons and die. However should they survive, the political and military powers give them quests of many colors. There were swords and spears everywhere. A quest was when for one reason or another, some local power could not send their own men.

I've typically only seen single independent small towns in the wilderness, as colonies, or heavily fortified with muscle, magic, or money. Or in points of light like settings when organization that level is near impossible.

So if the PCs looked up, there was always someone bigger looking down until very high levels

Your experience is certainly not universal, nor is it an assumption of D&D. It never has been.

Honestly, most DMs don't really care all that much nor would they even know how to implement a feudal system accurately.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

4e and 5e even codify the idea in their rules as tiers. As PCs hit the next tier, the NPCs introduce you to their bosses, supporters, and patrons to match the higher tier threats you will face.

Nope. That is not what tiers represent. You don’t hit level 11 and stop talking to the mayor of Hillsburrow because you’re now a Paragon, unless the DM has decided to use such a conceit.

What 4e advised is to transition to bigger stakes and tiers of in-game recognition/reputation as the party levels up, but you could be getting quests from the Emperor Undying, God and Resurrection of the Nine Houses, from level 3 if that’s what works for the story, or likewise never meet the Emperor the whole campaign and always take quests (insofar as one needs to take quests from someone) from your “low level” House patron all the way to level 30.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

They do, but not in a feudal sense. It's just the idea that a local mayor isn't typically going to have an adventure that will be of interest or challenge for a 16th level group, where a king might.

And honestly, by that level, the PCs may very well already be dealing with stuff without any permission or blessing or request from anyone.

 

[Minigiant]

Your experience is certainly not universal, nor is it an assumption of D&D. It never has been.

Honestly, most DMs don't really care all that much nor would they even know how to implement a feudal system accurately.

It was never about being accurate.
It was about have a chain of security measures and transportation of resources.

Anyone who opted out of it needed to have their own form of management, security, and trade. You didn't see random little villages unless they were in the middle of nowhere or functioned as their own city state.

 

[Oofta]

It was never about being accurate.
It was about have a chain of security measures and transportation of resources.

Anyone who opted out of it needed to have their own form of management, security, and trade. You didn't see random little villages unless they were in the middle of nowhere or functioned as their own city state.

The default still isn't, and never has been, a feudal system. A hierarchy or monarchy of some sort? That's fairly typical. But a truly feudal system? Rare in my experience.

But I don't see what has to do with the topic, other than you are assuming that the way you play is universal which seems to be an ongoing theme around here.

 

[Vaalingrade]

What's been typical in my experience is two versions of things:

Every town is its own organism or an organ of a larger nearby city. 'The King' is a nebulous entity that either collects taxes or is a quest giver. There's really little to no connective tissue between 'Ruler of the City' and King. sometimes the King is the ruler of the city, taking the place where a Count or Marquis ought to be.

Sometimes the King is the folk what takes our womenfolk and needs to be Bravehearted.

OR

Wild West / Frontier Rules. Every town and city for itself. The King takes the place of a governor where the threatened townsfolk are writing them for help and none if coming until the PCs show up and Seven Samurai that naughty word. Bad guys take these places over with impunity and the idea of working together is an exciting new innovation invented by the PCs.