D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Chaosmancer]

I literally have grown peppers and pepper in Central California. They just need good soil and the right amount of sun and water, and to not get too cold. Not that it even matters. You can season food with acorns, for crying out loud.

Because Central California has the same climate as Germany?

It's that "not get too cold" part that is the stickler.

And, you know, maybe they could have used different spices, but instead people wanted to accuse me of all sorts of things. I guess I could see them seasoning with things that aren't salt and pepper, and those things being rare treats. Instead we have archdruids and gods falling over themselves to make special plants so that the hlaflings don't have to leave their shires, which are perfect little paradises in the middle of the world that no one can find.

Or, you could not nitpick a modern example and instead talk about the actual topic. Every farmer in rural Scandinavia in the 10th century either made their own booze or got it from a neighbor, same with everything else they needed, most of the time. Same with most of the world, for most of history. Villages trade to exchange their own excess stock for someone else's excess stock, not to survive, the vast majority of the time.

There is no reason to think that halflings need significant trade to survive.

You know it is funny you have gone to the 10th century. That is the 900's. Generally people think of DnD as being closer to the Renaissance in the 1300's

But, when I typed 900 AD into Google, I found a fun little fact: "The east coast of Africa is impacted by trade and Arab, Persian and Indian traders mix with the indigenous Bantu. Many of the coastal Bantu adopt Islam, reaching as far south as Sofala (Mozambique)."

Traders from the Indian Subcontinent reached and dealt with the people of the East Coast of Africa. International trade was a big deal.

And, listen to what you said, right here "Villages trade to exchange their own excess stock for someone else's excess stock"

Now, I have, as I keep reminding people, never said that the Halflings couldn't survive without trade. Of course they could. I'd be an idiot to think that a single farm can't grow enough food for people to survive. My point has always been that the depiction of halflings doesn't make sense if they don't trade with the outside world.

Trade isn't generally necessary for survival, but it is generally done anyways for other things. Like Glass, like paper for books, like ceramics, like tea, there are things we just casually imagine halflings having. Pipeweed (AKA tobbaco) is another big example.

Now sure, I could make up a million fantasy plants that halflings could have, so that they could have every single thing under the sun in their ideallyc paradises... but it is easier to imagine they trade for some of these things.

The problem is, if they trade, then they have contact with the outside world. And the outside world can find their villages. And if they can find their villages, now we are back to wondering, how do they defend themselves?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Halflings by comparison make a mockery of martial traditions with sticks & aren't know for magic either

In an entirely optional supplement known for weird hot takes on the common races, Halflings train via sport with sticks. That’s a wild ride from that to “mockery of martial traditions”.

As for magic, they need to be “known” for magic to have magic? Seems a bit odd, to me.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The thing I find interesting is that there's broad agreement that gnomes can hide their communities via magic, but halflings can't do it via skill. Being "naturally stealthy" is a feature some significant portion of their community just..is.

Because it takes more than skill to hide farmland.

Honestly, how do you hide a farm complete with cows, pigs, goats, chickens, and large enough to support multiple crops simultaneously?

Plus, the halfling skill for hiding is simply to hide behind things bigger than them, that doesn't exactly translate well into hiding things like goats.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Why not everyone else? They are just plants. Anyone can grow them.

It wasn't like people in Europe couldn't grow potatoes after they were found.

Because everyone else is growing trade crops with adequate yields to allow for profitable trade.
When you're growing food for self sufficiency and based on personal preference, you can afford to be less efficient in your fantasy botanical pursuits.

But to your point, other similarly self-sufficient and insular communities could exist if they're not particularly interested in accumulating wealth. And.. they may not make for particularly attractive raiding targets.

They would of course be less lucky and typically less good at hiding, and so some amount more likely to get raided than a comparable halfling village.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Because it takes more than skill to hide farmland.

Honestly, how do you hide a farm complete with cows, pigs, goats, chickens, and large enough to support multiple crops simultaneously?

Plus, the halfling skill for hiding is simply to hide behind things bigger than them, that doesn't exactly translate well into hiding things like goats.

How do you do the same with a 1 minute illusion that covers a 5ft cube?

 

[tetrasodium]

In an entirely optional supplement known for weird hot takes on the common races, Halflings train via sport with sticks. That’s a wild ride from that to “mockery of martial traditions”.

The phb isn't exactly an improvement

As for magic, they need to be “known” for magic to have magic? Seems a bit odd, to me.

Dwarf Elf & gnome cultures embrace magic either as casters or crafters & all recognize/embrace advanced styles of government. Halflings embrace being commoners soaking in shirelife & avoid advanced styles of governance just as they avoid taking measures to protect themselves in a world at least as dangerous as ours was at a similar level of development. Advanced forms of governance look at these idyllic halfling villages and are suddenly either nervestapled into not caring to absorb one more village despite an apparent incredible level of productivity or the skilled trackers working for that advanced government are suddenly incapable of following a path. when a culture affects the free will of another to such a degree something is off

 

[Maxperson]

No, I said you can't live in a desert and grow rice, as an example that plants don't just grow in any environment you want.

You guys are the ones who decided to run with that.

It was an absurd response by you. I was talking about normal environments and you were like, "But you can't have a rice paddy in a desert." False Equivalences are false. Showing an exception does not invalidate the rule.

So they do trade. Which is my point.

And if they do trade... what is a large amount? They aren't trading metric tons, but is a trip every two weeks really so shocking, when market days were held weekly?

And if they do trade, then there are paths. Paths which for some reason are harder to find than shore on a cloudy day in with no land in sight (yes, I didn't forget that you ignored those mechanics)

We've already been over this. There are some narrow paths that are very hard to find and protected by luck. You don't need to keep trying to prove that these narrow paths exist.

Seriously? "But barter hasn't happened in America for generations, therefore it is completely different in a medieval setting before most people had money"

Yeah. It's almost like that was a time period similar to the one in D&D.

Oh, and it still happens to this day by the way. People barter in current day America.

Really? So your halfling adventurer is always close enough to their hometown to just head over there for dinner?

You think that after a two week journey home he's not going to eat dinner?

 

[Maxperson]

Because Central California has the same climate as Germany?

@Minigiant I've figured out why Halflings are not like all other races! Those warlike German Halflings were forced to disarm after the Great War and now they're peaceful.

 

[Maxperson]

Because it takes more than skill to hide farmland.

Honestly, how do you hide a farm complete with cows, pigs, goats, chickens, and large enough to support multiple crops simultaneously?

Being being in a place where people don't go.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Because Central California has the same climate as Germany?

What the Deutsch?

You think the whole of the average D&D world is Germany, or...? Your objection makes no sense.