D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Chaosmancer]

Because everyone else is growing trade crops with adequate yields to allow for profitable trade.
When you're growing food for self sufficiency and based on personal preference, you can afford to be less efficient in your fantasy botanical pursuits.

But to your point, other similarly self-sufficient and insular communities could exist if they're not particularly interested in accumulating wealth. And.. they may not make for particularly attractive raiding targets.

They would of course be less lucky and typically less good at hiding, and so some amount more likely to get raided than a comparable halfling village.

That makes no sense.

If it is a plant, it can be grown. If it can be grown, it can be grown in quantities for consumption and trade. Somehow these magical spice plants can't be grown in enough quantity for trade, but they can be grown to support an entire village's needs? No. That isn't how growing plants works.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yep. I grew up in rural Michigan on a farm, and then to the nearby small town of 400. That's how I know that chimney smoke just isn't that noticeable until you are right up on the town. I also know how easy it is to pass by not only a few acres of valley or farmland, but also entire lakes.

Yep. People who haven’t grown up spending time in the countryside have no idea what it’s actually like. Thus the disconnect, I think.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You're getting enough. The neighbors trading extensively matters, because it means that unusual things will be more common and cheaper.

Exactly.

I mean, unless it turns out the entire fantasy multiverse is contained within Germany, of course.

 

[Chaosmancer]

How do you do the same with a 1 minute illusion that covers a 5ft cube?

By studying illusion magic and becoming a wizard.

The elves created Mythals, that isn't in their racial write-up. But they are known to be skilled at magic and every high elf can at least cast a cantrip.

Gnomes are known to be skilled at illusions, and every forest gnome can at least cast minor illusions. No reason to assume that they don't have more skilled illusionists who can craft illusions over a wider area for a longer time.


But halflings are small enough to hide behind bigger people. That doesn't give them the skill to hide a field of pumpkins or a herd of goats.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

By studying illusion magic and becoming a wizard.

The elves created Mythals, that isn't in their racial write-up. But they are known to be skilled at magic and every high elf can at least cast a cantrip.

Gnomes are known to be skilled at illusions, and every forest gnome can at least cast minor illusions. No reason to assume that they don't have more skilled illusionists who can craft illusions over a wider area for a longer time.


But halflings are small enough to hide behind bigger people. That doesn't give them the skill to hide a field of pumpkins or a herd of goats.

So, we can extrapolate all kinds of powerful magic from minor kinda related magic, but we can’t extrapolate...stealth from...also stealth?

Seriously?

 

[Don Durito]

Hobbitsville.

This halfling settlement is hidden away in small wooded valley. It has approximately 100 souls with another 4 to 5 hundred family farmsteads in the surrounding hills.

The settlement, being in the hills, is outside the usual range of the nearest human state to project force frequently, although, the land is tecnhically claimed by that kingdom, who occasionally make an effort to collect taxes.

The primary halfling crop grown in this area is sweet potato, along with other root vegetables, this is convenient because they can be hidden away and stored in the ground until grown. This makes it hard for any military force to lay claim to their food supply.

See "The Art of not being governed" by James C Scott, for how the dynamics of this sort of society that exists on the periphery of a state work.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Actually, yes.

See, I mentioned this before, but this idea that halfling luck is partially derived from them being unambitious is a serious problem for me.

See, according to the book, their Goddess bends luck in their favor, but the real force behind their luck is that they are so unassuming and unambitious that the universe bends to protect them... except if that is true, then it means that the ambitions of the other races are the only reasons that they are attacked and killed by all of these violent and savage events.

If everyone was just a simple farmer with no ambitions beyond good food and friends, then nothing bad could happen to anyone in the world anymore. All of the misery or humans, elves and dwarves is all their own fault.

And this is despite the fact that, well, I found this in the halfling PHB write up about humans, "Humans are a lot like us, really. At least some of them are. Step out of the castles and keeps, go talk to the farmers and herders and you’ll find good, solid folk. Not that there’s anything wrong with the barons and soldiers—you have to admire their conviction. And by protecting their own lands, they protect us as well.”

Humans have ambitions, they have castles and barons and soldiers. Because of that they can't have the idyllic luck and paradise of the halflings, but even the halflings acknowledge that by having those ambitions, those castles, those soldiers, the humans are protecting the halflings.


Earlier in the thread people asked what was wrong with halflings being one of the core four races. To me, this is it. This is a fundamental problem. Elves, Dwarves, Humans they are independent. They survive and thrive on their own. Halflings? They need to be protected by their bigger neighbors, so they can remain idyllic, so that they are lucky enough to be protected from attack.

As written, that doesn't work.

I believe the term is "Mo' money, mo problems"?

It's unacceptable that a D&D deity would adhere to such a view and reward others who do so? Sure it doesn't make a ton of real world sense, but I think it makes enough fantasy sense to pay the bill.

And I guess generally, what are you looking for out of your "Core four"? (Not that I have any particular interest in there even being a core four), and is the problem that the halfling is in that group or with the halfling in D&D generally?

 

[Chaosmancer]

It was an absurd response by you. I was talking about normal environments and you were like, "But you can't have a rice paddy in a desert." False Equivalences are false. Showing an exception does not invalidate the rule.

You wanted to insist you can grow any plant in any environment. My response was in line with that.

We've already been over this. There are some narrow paths that are very hard to find and protected by luck. You don't need to keep trying to prove that these narrow paths exist.

Luck that makes it harder to find than the shoreline on a dark day, with no land in sight. Or cutting through the center of a jungle.

Far far harder than traveling through the desert in a straight line.

Because of "luck" granted by their goddess, directly and constantly.

Yeah. It's almost like that was a time period similar to the one in D&D.

Oh, and it still happens to this day by the way. People barter in current day America.

I know, but it is incredibly uncommon and doesn't apply to super stores.

But you want to make some grand difference between "I give you an item, you give me coins, I use coins to buy a new item" and "I give you an item, you give me an item"

It isn't that big of a difference. I don't know why you want halflings to eschew coins to this degree that we need to constantly point out that they don't sell things for money. Who cares if they have coins in their pocket before they get what they want? Why does this matter so much to you?

You think that after a two week journey home he's not going to eat dinner?

The fact that it would take him two weeks of travel kind of proves the point I was making.

 

[Chaosmancer]

What the Deutsch?

You think the whole of the average D&D world is Germany, or...? Your objection makes no sense.

No.

But saying that you can grow a tropical plant in central California doesn't mean that they can grow anywhere. You need a similar enough environment, and most of the focus of DnD campagins take place is psuedo-Europe, with a european climate.

Which isn't Californian or tropical.

 

[Gammadoodler]

No.

But saying that you can grow a tropical plant in central California doesn't mean that they can grow anywhere. You need a similar enough environment, and most of the focus of DnD campagins take place is psuedo-Europe, with a european climate.

Which isn't Californian or tropical.

Or real