D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Chaosmancer]

Didn't say that other people couldn't grow the stuff for consumption and trade. But trade rewards efficient allocation of resources. Growing a diverse set of plants on a single plot of land best suited for one crop is generally a poor use of that land if your goal is to make a profit through trade. Without the profit drive, as long as you get enough of what you want, you've cleared the bar.

Thus profit farmer - less variety, more money (more problems) vs. Enjoyment farmer, more variety, less money (fewer problems).

Right... you realize there is more than one farm in a village right?

Or is your argument that entire villages of humans would grow a large amount of a single crop, then trade that crop to other human villages who did the same thing, for money.

But halfling villages would grow a smaller number of multiple crops, so they don't have to spend money to get anything they don't have.

While, yes, that is how cash crops worked, that really didn't become a norm until something like the 1700s. Far past when we generally think of DnD taking place. Because it really only worked with very large numbers of distant communities. A small village would grow everything to trade only with other local villages, generally through a central town for ease of meeting up. So if a halfling village could easily grow enough food and spices and enough goods for trade... then so could the human villages.

 

[Chaosmancer]

So... come up with something that works for you?

I did. I've mentioned it repeatedly. But for some reason the fact that halflings don't make sense to me is unnacceptable and I must be made to admit they are perfect and without flaw as written.

Halfling villages serve whatever purpose the story needs. If the D&D campaign needs idyllic, untouched hobbit havens, then they are that. Who cares how they grow their peppercorns?

If the D&D campaign needs halflings to be nomadic travelers riding hounds, then they are that. Who cares what their god thinks?

D&D is literally made up at the table. All the lore in the books is just one option. It's never going to make sense, because it's not a reality simulator. Halflings take on whatever role the game needs, and they are there so adventurers can interact with them.

And yet again, my only contention has been that idyllic untouched hobbit havens don't make sense. That is all. That is what has gotten me mocked continuously for the last few days.

 

[Gammadoodler]

"Gnomes are skilled illusionists" translates into "Gnomes are skilled at illusion magic". Yes, that seems to be a fairly logical extrapolation.

"Halflings can hide behind medium creatures" translating into "halflings can hide entire fields, herds, and villages via their skill at hiding in nature" seems to be a lot more of a stretch, don't you think?

Do you want a title or an effect? Seems like you're a little wishy washy here.

"Natural illusionists" vs. "Naturally stealthy"
Ok.. seems pretty equivalent to me, at least in terms of extrapolation bases.

"Can make a 1 minute static illusion in a 5ft cube"
vs.
"Can hide behind larger creatures"
Also...pretty damn equivalent.

If there's a distinction to be made, this does not seem like fertile ground for it.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

That makes no sense.

If it is a plant, it can be grown. If it can be grown, it can be grown in quantities for consumption and trade. Somehow these magical spice plants can't be grown in enough quantity for trade, but they can be grown to support an entire village's needs? No. That isn't how growing plants works.

One year my wife and I grew a dill plant in our kitchen. Over the course of a single year, our little single plant (growing in a coffee mug sized pot) produced enough dill for us to dry and use for several years. Theoretically our two next door neighbors could grow some other singular succulent and we could trade amongst ourselves and turn one singular plant each into 3 separate year supply of some lesser used herbs.

Assuming halflings were know for cooking, it's entirely reasonable to have 20 houses growing 10 plants each and producing a veritable smorgasbord of goodies to trade around for the year. Then, some random trip to the "big city" has a farmer discover something new and they bring it back to the village introducing a new flavor for everyone. 10 pots on the windowsill....that's the real estate it would take to outfit the entire community with whatever they needed.

 

[Maxperson]

Luck that makes it harder to find than the shoreline on a dark day, with no land in sight. Or cutting through the center of a jungle.

Far far harder than traveling through the desert in a straight line.

Because of "luck" granted by their goddess, directly and constantly.

Gods are good to have on your side.

But you want to make some grand difference between "I give you an item, you give me coins, I use coins to buy a new item" and "I give you an item, you give me an item"


It isn't that big of a difference. I don't know why you want halflings to eschew coins to this degree that we need to constantly point out that they don't sell things for money. Who cares if they have coins in their pocket before they get what they want? Why does this matter so much to you?

It matters because of the Halfling mindset. A people who occasionally swap some sandals for some pepper are different from a people who trade sandals for coins. Money corrupts.

The fact that it would take him two weeks of travel kind of proves the point I was making.

I just pulled that number out because of the Two-Week Viking raids. The village the Halfling is in could be 2 days travel, 2 weeks travel or 2 months travel away. However far it was, I didn't say it was close enough to run home for dinner with the parents. I just said that given Halfling wanderlust, he'd want to travel home to give the news to the parents himself AND get some of mom's cooking while he's there.

 

[Maxperson]

No.

But saying that you can grow a tropical plant in central California doesn't mean that they can grow anywhere. You need a similar enough environment, and most of the focus of DnD campagins take place is psuedo-Europe, with a european climate.

Which isn't Californian or tropical.

Magical greenhouses are a thing. An entire layer of Undermountain is a forest. I'm not saying Halflings would have them, but a village might, if it had a Halfling Wizard adventurer retired there or did a favor for a Wizard at some point.

 

[Minigiant]

If halflings towns are secretly all Villages Hidden in the Leaves, then I at least want to see some more official art of halflings Naruto running.

 

[Maxperson]

Pretty easy to spot farms near me though. They tend to be a bit obvious.

Because 1) modern farms tend to be many, many times larger than a typical family farm, and 2) they tend to be near well travelled roads, which family farms rarely were.

 

[Maxperson]

"Gnomes are skilled illusionists" translates into "Gnomes are skilled at illusion magic". Yes, that seems to be a fairly logical extrapolation.

"Halflings can hide behind medium creatures" translating into "halflings can hide entire fields, herds, and villages via their skill at hiding in nature" seems to be a lot more of a stretch, don't you think?

Yep. But this, "Although halflings aren't reclusive by nature, they are adept at finding out-of-the-way places to settle in." makes it very easy.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Right... you realize there is more than one farm in a village right?

Or is your argument that entire villages of humans would grow a large amount of a single crop, then trade that crop to other human villages who did the same thing, for money.

But halfling villages would grow a smaller number of multiple crops, so they don't have to spend money to get anything they don't have.

While, yes, that is how cash crops worked, that really didn't become a norm until something like the 1700s. Far past when we generally think of DnD taking place. Because it really only worked with very large numbers of distant communities. A small village would grow everything to trade only with other local villages, generally through a central town for ease of meeting up. So if a halfling village could easily grow enough food and spices and enough goods for trade... then so could the human villages.

And unless those villagers all got together and built their desired menu for the area, with enough to spare to send in trade they would likely only have the crops they could efficiently grow on their land, hell, their collective land, until they went to the market, a trader came in whatever.

As such, their dining options would be similarly limited. In contrast, suffering some inefficiency, but with no need for trade surplus the comparable halfling village can enjoy greater variety.