D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Chaosmancer]

Probably because most of those quotes are mine not @Sabathius42 s. In fact all of them except for the last, but who's counting?

Ah, so they are.

My apologies @Sabathius42 , I didn't realize that you just jumped into the middle of the conversation.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I didn't say basic common halflings. I'm just saying that halflings haven't been said to have any skills that could hide a village. That's why I asked. What are they going to do that is going to hide the village and make sure ti stays hidden basically all the time, from any threat?

You explicitly compared the skills of a leveled character as a proxy for their race, to an unleveled one...or you conspicuously failed to mention anything that would indicate otherwise.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Replace "need" with "want" in most places, and basically yeah. Halflings value tasty food more than humans, and other stuff less. So they allocate more resources to tasty food production. Really not sure how this is at all controversial.

Well, there is the interesting point that @Don Durito brought up that if halflings are living deep in human territory, protected by the human lords, that they would have to pay taxes. Which is sort of the case with all the human farmers.

Of course there is also the fact that humans have traditionally enjoyed tasty food enough to go to war over it. A lot. So, halflings liking it more than that, while humans simply stop caring about good food and bow down to almighty gold piece seems a bit strange.


I mean, the argument still is that halflings have special spice plants that can grow to provide them with everything they need, but humans are too blinded by gold to grow those spice plants and instead spend their gold they want so bad to buy spices. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You explicitly compared the skills of a leveled character as a proxy for their race, to an unleveled one...or you conspicuously failed to mention anything that would indicate otherwise.

I didn't think I needed to specify that when gnomes say they are masters of illusion that they were referring to more than the most basic illusion spell cast by any novice magic-user. Am I supposed to point out that when they talk about dwarven soldiers they aren't talking about the green recruit with the wood training weapons?

And, while it states explicity in the Gnomish write up that they use illusions to hide their homes. Halflings... don't have that. All they have that is even close is that they live "far away" from monsters and armies. Nothing in the PHB or Mordenkainen's describes anyways that halfling shires are hidden. Except for divine intervention because they are just that lucky.

And again, it specifically tells us that gnomes use illusion magic, are well known as practitioners of illusion magic, and that they use illusion magic specifically to help hide their homes. Assuming that they only have access to the most basic form of illusion magic that any elven child could learn, seems to spit in the face of them being master illusionists.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Obfuscation how?

What disguises hide an entire village, the farms, the animals, the people, ect?

Misdirection by doing what? Turning a road sign? That only works as long as they don't, you know, turn back around


You are just waving your hand and saying "they'd do it" without giving me much more to work with here,

Off the top of my head,..Obfuscation, let's see, changing terrain or growing vegetation to block line of sight, hiding path entrances exits or the path entirely, perhaps underground or through tree roots or something. Misdirection, false signage, false pathways, installation of something that draws the eye elsewhere away from the direction of the village or the parts to it. Disguise, various combinations of earthworks and vegetation.

Would they need help, sure. The point is that have the knowledge for how to avoid notice and those skills are applicable.

And you're accusing me of handwaving while apparently going with ever Gnomish village includes an 11th level caster whose illusions are utterly impenetrable

 

[Gammadoodler]

Well, there is the interesting point that @Don Durito brought up that if halflings are living deep in human territory, protected by the human lords, that they would have to pay taxes. Which is sort of the case with all the human farmers.

Of course there is also the fact that humans have traditionally enjoyed tasty food enough to go to war over it. A lot. So, halflings liking it more than that, while humans simply stop caring about good food and bow down to almighty gold piece seems a bit strange.


I mean, the argument still is that halflings have special spice plants that can grow to provide them with everything they need, but humans are too blinded by gold to grow those spice plants and instead spend their gold they want so bad to buy spices. It doesn't make sense.

Is enjoying tasty food enough to go to war for it in the human write up? I don't see it. Is "exemplar of ambition" in it? Is halflings enjoying delicious food in the write up? Hell, is there a note in the human entry of the PHB about delicious halfling food and their potential if they had ambition?

It seems you're only willing to adhere to the writeup when it's convenient for your argument.

 

[Maxperson]

But, think this through. Nothing about halflings suggests that they have plant magic. So, these plants would be something anyone can grow. There is nothing in the lore about them having access to crops no one else can grow.

"On nights when the moon is full, especially during the planting and harvesting seasons, the elders tell stories about Sheela Peryroyl. After becoming a hero though her glorious adventures, Sheela joined with the earth, fusing her spirit with the flowers, plants, and trees so she could better provide for her kin."

 

[Maxperson]

So now it isn't that they can't do it (which I originally claimed) but now you want to say that they would be stupid to do it because it isn't worth it.

It wasn't worth clarifying when you posted it the first time. Better just to agree that it wouldn't happen and let you worry about it.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I didn't think I needed to specify that when gnomes say they are masters of illusion that they were referring to more than the most basic illusion spell cast by any novice magic-user. Am I supposed to point out that when they talk about dwarven soldiers they aren't talking about the green recruit with the wood training weapons?

And, while it states explicity in the Gnomish write up that they use illusions to hide their homes. Halflings... don't have that. All they have that is even close is that they live "far away" from monsters and armies. Nothing in the PHB or Mordenkainen's describes anyways that halfling shires are hidden. Except for divine intervention because they are just that lucky.

And again, it specifically tells us that gnomes use illusion magic, are well known as practitioners of illusion magic, and that they use illusion magic specifically to help hide their homes. Assuming that they only have access to the most basic form of illusion magic that any elven child could learn, seems to spit in the face of them being master illusionists.

If you were to compare elite dwarven paladins, clerics, or whatever to a halfling with only it's basic racial features, yes, it would be similarly disingenuous.

 

[Minigiant]

If you were to compare elite dwarven paladins, clerics, or whatever to a halfling with only it's basic racial features, yes, it would be similarly disingenuous.

Again I thinsk it comes down to how D&D and its fans treat the mundane.

No one bats an eye if we say the greater gnome community has mid level illusionists who wither live in the villages or travel to them to set upmany permanent illusions over the entrances of their towns.

Say the same about a mid level halfling rogue and you get funny noises thrown at you even if the game says they can do it. But for halflings, the game doesn't say that mid level rogues can do it nor that the halfling community has rogues doing it. Triple Whammy.