D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Oofta]

13th time? 14th time? I'm losing track.

I did homebrew halflings for my own game.
I did homebrew halflings for my own game.
I did homebrew halflings for my own game.
I did homebrew halflings for my own game.

How many times do I have to say this? Really? I made my own version. I'm happy with my own version. I've told you guys at least twice what my version is.

You say the book doesn't specify what commoners can fight with? I gave you a list. All of the things a village would likely have lying around. The book tells us that instead of those things a human commoner might use, because they are what is at hand, halflings use sticks and rocks.

Not clubs and slings. Not hand axes and knives. Not sickles and scythes. Sticks and rocks. You say I should either accept that or make my own version. Well, I did homebrew halflings for my own game, because I saw using sticks and rocks as a laughable way to fight off the dangers of something like an Ogre. Per the rules, they would be equally effective punching it. Imagine some 3ft tall halflings driving off a 10 ft tall massive ogre by punching it and throwing little rocks at it.

Go to page 220 of Mordenkainen's. Look at that Ogre with the battering ram. The one with three crossbow bolts buried halfway to the fletching in his shoulders. Tell me how you drive him off with some thrown stones, by hand, by some halfling farmers?

I did homebrew halflings for my own game, but that doesn't mean I can't point to the book and say "this doesn't make any sense"

Well, I guess it must, because I've been insulted, derided and mocked for days because I don't accept the book version.

So you home brewed your halflings because they didn't work in your world. You fixed them for your world. Cool. Why so intent on insisting that halflings are bad in everyone else's campaign? They work just fine as written for many people. Your campaign seems to be far more dangerous than many, it's not reasonable to assume your world is a default in any way shaper or form.

Your obsession with one line in the entire write-up is just odd. Most commoners in a small farming village are not going to have real weapons, the line about sticks and stones shows how they make coordinated attacks with what they have on hand. They aren't PCs, they don't have to kill the ogre, just drive it off. In addition the saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones..." is literal. You're focus on 1% of the write-up to say their horrible.

The default halfling is a race that exemplifies the pastoral ideal. In your world if all commoners in small farming villages are armed to the teeth then halflings should be armed similarly. But the standard default assumption? Small farming villages would not have significant weaponry. If the threat is greater than they can deal with they'll do what everyone else has ever done, ask for help, develop additional defenses or flee.

Meanwhile you continue to ignore the difficulty people have finding the village in the first place. While they don't clearly explain it, it's clearly supernatural. There doesn't have to be an explanation for it any more than there needs to be an explanation of how dragons fly and breath fire.

 

[Minigiant]

TSR hasn't existed for a long long time. And as I keep saying WotC make plenty of use of halflings (who are not supposed to be particularly numerous or prominent) in their adventures.

I suspect elves, dwarves and halflings will all fade into the background over time, and new races with take over their niches. There are more tieflings and dragonborn NPCs than elves in RotFM. But that doesn't matter and they will still be available for those who want them.

My issue is that it is almost like the community refuses to analyze why.
Many will ask "why isn't X popular anymore?" then shut their brains off or blame it on youth.


I mean if you limit the scope of the NPC lore, it shouldnt be a surprise when the PCs follow in range and thus number.

 

[Maxperson]

For the record I gave an example of "small goods" that are finely crafted/intricate designs as an example of trade goods that halflings are known for in my campaign setting.

Which is fine(see what I did there?). It was an example of what you do with Halflings in your campaign. That's not the same as saying that the lore says that they make fine goods. The other issue is @Chaosmancer attributing that to me and then accusing me of back peddling when disagree with him on it and call him out for his Strawman.

 

[Maxperson]

My issue is that it is almost like the community refuses to analyze why.
Many will ask "why isn't X popular anymore?" then shut their brains off or blame it on youth.


I mean if you limit the scope of the NPC lore, it shouldnt be a surprise when the PCs follow in range and thus number.

I've seen few Halflings played, few Gnomes played, even fewer Kobolds and Goblins played, etc. I think that the relative lack of popularity is a size issue, not one of lore. People seem to want to play size medium or larger creatures.

 

[Oofta]

My issue is that it is almost like the community refuses to analyze why.
Many will ask "why isn't X popular anymore?" then shut their brains off or blame it on youth.


I mean if you limit the scope of the NPC lore, it shouldnt be a surprise when the PCs follow in range and thus number.

Or it could just be that there are a large number of races and the prejudice against short runs deep.

I will agree that the art for halflings in the PHB is pretty horrible. They also lean a little too much into the "Ewok" trope in MToF, e.g. "they're small therefore they must be borderline silly". Same thing they did with the Ferengi for that matter.

I just don't necessarily think the solution is to make them more like elves and dwarves.

 

[Minigiant]

I've seen few Halflings played, few Gnomes played, even fewer Kobolds and Goblins played, etc. I think that the relative lack of popularity is a size issue, not one of lore. People seem to want to play size medium or larger creatures.

I think the size issue could be overcome if the lore is strong and hints to mechanical strengths and options however if being small is almost purely a weakness and no lore inspires options to overcome it, popularity plummets.

It's the same as the old dumb races.

 

[Oofta]

My issue is that it is almost like the community refuses to analyze why.
Many will ask "why isn't X popular anymore?" then shut their brains off or blame it on youth.


I mean if you limit the scope of the NPC lore, it shouldnt be a surprise when the PCs follow in range and thus number.

BTW, I think the art did get better along the way. This is one is an example of a good representation of halflings, there should have been more

 

[TwoSix]

It's called exaggerating. Saying no one is playing doesn't mean I am saying zero peple are. I even stated that some people are.

I am saying very very few people are playing a race that is deemed one of the most iconic races.

Also I don't want Halflings removed. I don't hate halflings. I just think TSR and WOTC did/are doing the dirty and letting an iconic race fade away by treating them poorly. When all the older fans die out, age out, or move to other games, halflings will struggle to be 5% of played PCs and major NPCs.

That will happen regardless of how WotC presents them. You can't sexify 1m tall happy go lucky farming types into being the new elves, unless you're also willing to jettison most of their defining traits and essentially rebooting them.

 

[Maxperson]

I think the size issue could be overcome if the lore is strong and hints to mechanical strengths and options however if being small is almost purely a weakness and no lore inspires options to overcome it, popularity plummets.

I don't. I think you might draw a few more people in, but by and large people just don't like to be small as much as they like to be medium or larger.

It's the same as the old dumb races.

I often played one of the "dumb" races. I just needed to have rolled a 12 or higher to put into Int(or in that spot if no swaps allowed), so that I ended up with a 10+. So long as my PC was at least average on intelligence, I had no issues with it.

 

[tetrasodium]

I find it interesting that here we are on page 80+ where some of the very people who suggested & defended FR & Greyhawk specific role of gods/pantheon being needed to prop up the phb halfling with plot armor are suddenly concerned about the idea of tainting the setting neutral phb by including representation for some of the halflings that break the shirelife meme shaped mold in the phb. Interesting but not at all surprising.