Jon Peterson: Does System Matter?

D&D historian Jon Peterson asks the question on his blog as he does a deep dive into how early tabletop RPG enthusiasts wrestled with the same thing.

Based around the concept that 'D&D can do anything, so why learn a new system?', the conversation examines whether the system itself affects the playstyle of those playing it. Some systems are custom-designed to create a certain atmosphere (see Dread's suspenseful Jenga-tower narrative game), and Call of Cthulhu certainly discourages the D&D style of play, despite a d20 version in early 2000s.

Does System Matter?

Dungeons & Dragons started out as a game with such an adaptable and open-ended set of rules that early adopters questioned whether any fur...

playingattheworld.blogspot.com

 

[prabe]

Do you still have to buy them on DDB? I haven't used the platform myself, so I'm not familiar. If so, they still own the rulebooks, just in a different format.

If the DM has the right sort of subscription, they can arrange for players in their campaign/s to have access to the books the DM has unlocked on D&D Beyond.

For example, players in the campaigns I've set up on D&D Beyond have access to the content I've unlocked on D&D Beyond. I think that if one of the players has unlocked a book I haven't, then it's shared in the campaign/s that player is in.

Hope that's clear. Ish.

 

[Morrus]

If the DM has the right sort of subscription, they can arrange for players in their campaign/s to have access to the books the DM has unlocked on D&D Beyond.

For example, players in the campaigns I've set up on D&D Beyond have access to the content I've unlocked on D&D Beyond. I think that if one of the players has unlocked a book I haven't, then it's shared in the campaign/s that player is in.

Hope that's clear. Ish.

So it's basically one player at the table buys the book and then everybody can look at it? Sounds pretty similar to the physical dynamic.

 

[prabe]

So it's basically one player at the table buys the book and then everybody can look at it? Sounds pretty similar to the physical dynamic.

Pretty much. If you're DMing multiple campaigns, it's a relatively cost-effective way for people to see the rules.

My wife and I ended up doing it, because she's going to be out of town for a couple of months or so, and D&D Beyond is cheaper than buying second copies of books (and easier for her to pack).

 

[TheSword]

duplicate

 

[TheSword]

"And not using d&d beyond," is a huge hole in your point, though -- it's still needed access to the rules of the game.

My players don’t use d&d beyond. They use the PHB. Though I do use it, but that’s besides the point as I have a PHB. Either way, the base spells are free on there.

I always thought a couple of copies of PHB around a table when you play in someone’s home is normal. Why do you need 5 copies of the same book?

Or are we assuming that everyone is who plays is as obsessed about rules as us few who post here?

The Basic rules are free as are basic classes. Don’t really see the big deal.

Though we’ve been over the barrier to entry cost over again. It’s been demonstrated it’s a mediocre cost of entry and much less than pretty much any other hobby I can think of.

 

[prabe]

I always thought a couple of copies of PHB around a table when you play in someone’s home is normal. Why do you need 5 copies of the same book?

Or are we assuming that everyone is who plays is as obsessed about rules as us few who post here?

I think people are expecting the players around the table to want copies of the rules for when they aren't at the table.

I will say that (I think) all the players at both tables I'm DMing for have their own copies of at least the PHB--except that my wife and I share.

 

[MGibster]

I always thought a couple of copies of PHB around a table when you play in someone’s home is normal. Why do you need 5 copies of the same book?

Or are we assuming that everyone is who plays is as obsessed about rules as us few who post here?

If you're playing a character with spells you might want to keep the PHB handy for references. And it's not uncommon to see a group made up of a significant portion of caster heavy character types. I typically write down the page number I can find my spell for quick reference if needed. I suppose I could purchase spell cards or write down entire spell descriptions but I have neither the inclination to spend money or the desire to spend my time writing that much. Counting me, I typically have 7 players for my D&D games and we have four PHBs floating around.

 

[TheSword]

If you're playing a character with spells you might want to keep the PHB handy for references. And it's not uncommon to see a group made up of a significant portion of caster heavy character types. I typically write down the page number I can find my spell for quick reference if needed. I suppose I could purchase spell cards or write down entire spell descriptions but I have neither the inclination to spend money or the desire to spend my time writing that much. Counting me, I typically have 7 players for my D&D games and we have four PHBs floating around.

I agree totally, which is why I said unless you’re a caster. Though of course you can get core spells on D&D beyond and expanded spells for a few dollars. Much more convenient for carrying round than a hardback book.

Four copies between 7 isn’t a million miles from what I said, two between 4 or 5.

 

[TheSword]

I think people are expecting the players around the table to want copies of the rules for when they aren't at the table.

I will say that (I think) all the players at both tables I'm DMing for have their own copies of at least the PHB--except that my wife and I share.

I think you’re dramatically overestimating the amount of time the new wave of players approach the game. My observations with a 18 month old group born out of board gaming is that they don’t paw through the book searching for rules between sessions. They turn up expecting to do character design and level up at the table as part of the game. They may check out a forum like this for ideas, or read a guide, but they don’t spend a huge amount of time planning.

While I appreciate this is anecdotal, I believe I saw that a lot of new players are also families playing with children. A generation of older players passing it on to the next generation. I don’t believe in these cases it would be typical for everyone in the family to have their own book.

In short. While it might be desirable to have your own copy of PHB it certainly isn’t necessary in situations where You’re playing with friends and family (rather than at a club/store/con). I definitely don’t see more than one copy of Xanathars or Tasha’s at the table. That’s my copy.

I really don’t see any evidence of the accusation that D&D conditions players to have their own copies of books.

 

[Aldarc]

This is one of those your miles may vary situations. I find it a lot easier to just purchase the main book so I have easy access to the rules and at least the basic setting information I need to make my participation a satisfactory experience. For me and most of my players, the $60 price tag for a new game isn't much of a barrier. I'm more concerned about having another book sitting on my shelf sitting unloved and unused than I am about money. For me, there's definitely been a correlation between campaigns I didn't particular care for and books I didn't purchase. I have two in the last 15 years I'm thinking of in particular and I can't recall their name and it's driving me nuts!

But "will this book sit on my shelf unloved?" is a different question from your original one about whether players would likewise buy a copy.

In my particular group, we've been using Savage Worlds off an on for more than five years now. I still have a player who asks me if he needs to roll a Wild Die when making a Vigor check. Cheat sheets are helpful and we've certainly used them in the past, when I run and when I'm a player, but I still run into this problem with my group.

I'm not sure if reading the rules would actually help players like this one.

The plethora of online resources has really been a godsend when it comes to introducing new players to a setting. When I ran Vampire 5th edition, only one player was familiar with the setting and I was able to recommend several lore videos on Youtube for them to get an idea of what it was all about. Youtube and fan Wikis are very, very useful resources for players and dungeon masters and they're both cheap. But, again, with my group, some of them just aren't going to read any of the material no matter how accessible I make it. My one page write ups for campaign settings usually consist of two paragraphs rather than a whole page.

Then why even bother asking if the players would read the setting materials as a pertinent question to take under consideration?